What does a defense robot NEED?

[Garrett.d.w]

I'd hazard to predict that the best defensive bots will:
Weigh 120 pounds.
Have two speed transmissions.
Six or Eight wheel drive.
Good Drivers.
Four cim's on drive (six cims stalling will throw your main breaker, I think)
Run every match.
WON'T GET PENALTIES.
Under 30 in tall (to fit under the pyramid)

Their defensive strategy would either involve the choke points located between the pyramid and the wall (to slow down traffic), or camping under the opponent's pyramid and then running out to hit/ push them around when they try to score. You could also deny a climb this way.

[Justin Montois]

Read Alec's post again. Please consider not building a defensive robot. The low rung on the pyramid and the 1pt goal are there to give teams of all skill levels the ability to play an offensive game.

[kingbrandon14]

If your team has chosen to build a defensive robot, I suggest the following things:
1) Have a strong chassis. Use all 6 motors and have big, grippy wheels. The robot needs to be fast and strong to push other robots out of the way.
2) Be able to pick up frisbees from the defensive end and deliver them to your teammates to score. This strategy was perfected last year by "BombSquad" (Team#16) at FRC Championships. They were on the winning alliance, if I remember correctly, and used this exact strategy. Stealing the opponents' frisbees will both lower their score, and help raise your own score.
3) Be able to hang for 10 points at the end. It will help out your team and yourself.
4) Practice. If you want to be able to do well in competition,your drivers need to have a lot of practice picking up frisbees, maneuvering around obstacles, etc.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

Why build a defense bot when you can, with little effort, make a 10pt hanging, 1 point low goal scoring robot?

If you guys are planning to only play a defensive role in this year's game, I urge you to reconsider. Scoring the smaller objectives, while not as glamorous as the larger ones, will still help your alliances win matches. Your season will be far more fulfilling as a result.

If you're planning on doing all of this already and are just trying to find out about good ways to play defense, then don't mind me.

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

Read Alec's post again. Please consider not building a defensive robot. The low rung on the pyramid and the 1pt goal are there to give teams of all skill levels the ability to play an offensive game.

What is so wrong with building a defensive robot? Seriously, at the rate some people in FIRST are starting to denigrate defense we might as well go back to 2001. If I was picking partners for a top team (and I never have, so maybe that's why), I would be way more inclined to pick a good defensive robot over one that can maybe score a few points, and in almost any regional any team, regardless of "skill level", can contribute to a strong alliance.

EDIT: This may not fall into the category of "need", but I would consider some of the following non-traditional forms of defense:

1. A very large fan to blow frisbees offline - people keep talking about it, but this year with the extra CIMs and aerodynamically sensitive game pieces, I really think it can work!

2. A robot that quickly picks up and shoots frisbees away (not off the field!) to deny the opposing team from picking them up

3. Keep them from getting into their loading zone - yes, their are rules from touching another robot in its loading zone, but there is no rule preventing you from going in their loading zone, as long as you keep them out!

4. Be as tall as possible to block frisbees - if there are any long shooters at your regional, have some way to get 84" high to block all their shots

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by bduddy

What is so wrong with building a defensive robot? Seriously, at the rate some people in FIRST are starting to denigrate defense we might as well go back to 2001. If I was picking partners for a top team (and I never have, so maybe that's why), I would be way more inclined to pick a good defensive robot over one that can maybe score a few points, and in almost any regional any team, regardless of "skill level", can contribute to a strong alliance.

The robots they recommend building could easily fall back and play defense if necessary. A robot in a random qual with no standout opponents can't play defense.

Also, a defender that can 10 point hang is far more valuable than one that can't.

[Chris is me]

Defense is a strategy, rarely if ever a design. Designs can have features attractive to defensive strategies, but I wouldn't call any truly viable FRC design a "defensive design".

That said, the ideal robot to execute a defensive strategy - high traction drivetrain, shifting is nice but not required, excellent drivers. As you can see, this could be* most FRC robots. This is why everyone is advocating for you to build a simple offensive robot, such as a 1 point dumper or 10 point hanger. You can easily do both.

Plus, offensive features lead to greater defensive strategies. Here's one example - let's say you add a floor pickup mechanism to a robot. You can start to play defense by picking up misses and other frisbees on the floor and then returning them to your side of the field.

[Unbound]

Originally Posted by gabrielc97

My team and I are just putting ideas together. does anyone have any tips? Ideas? strategies?

so far, we have come up with a robot design that can hypothetically push another robot the direction that their wheels are facing and change the angle to make it harder to shoot. any advice?

Get a transmission if you can afford one or make one of your own so that you can catch the other robots and then be able to shift to torque. May I also suggest that you create a mechanism to flip the Frisbees over? Many teams launchers rely on the lift that the dent in the Frisbee creates when it is rotating. If the Frisbee is upside down, the Frisbee will fly differently.

[Koko Ed]

A good drive train with a good driver with solid knowledge of the rules and a coach who is an agile thinker who also has a solid knowledge of the rules is a good place to start.

[Camren]

Be able to flip disks upside down this could be the biggest pain for a lot of teams. Most teams will make flipping devices but they take longer time flipping disks the right side up.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Camren

Be able to flip disks upside down this could be the biggest pain for a lot of teams. Most teams will make flipping devices but they take longer time flipping disks the right side up.

Field trolling. I like!

[Justin Montois]

Originally Posted by bduddy

What is so wrong with building a defensive robot? Seriously, at the rate some people in FIRST are starting to denigrate defense we might as well go back to 2001. If I was picking partners for a top team (and I never have, so maybe that's why), I would be way more inclined to pick a good defensive robot over one that can maybe score a few points, and in almost any regional any team, regardless of "skill level", can contribute to a strong alliance.

I'm not trying to denigrate defense as a strategy, but I am trying to denigrate a box on wheels robot that can ONLY play defense.

I've been in a lot of scouting meetings and made a lot of pick lists, I can't remember EVER considering to pick a robot with no offensive capability. At the very least we've decided on teams that might score in Auto and then we've instructed them to play defense ETC but we always base decisions on offensive contribution to our strategy.

Obviously teams are well within their right to build a "defensive" robot. The reason I urge against it is because the team will struggle to make eliminations at their events without some offensives capability.

[Tetraman]

A great Defense robot will need to be able to do everything that the other two offensive robots on the alliance can't do, or can do them so they don't have to.

This includes but not limited to:
1: Hanging for 30 points
2: Handle and score 4 of the colored alliance discs in the pyramid goal.
3: Push around opponent's robots from their most effective scoring locations.
4: Push around other defending robots so your alliance's offense can go off without a hitch.
5: Travel fast around the field to bog down locations of high traffic for your opponents.
6: Maneuver around discs on the floor and under both pyramids easily and quickly.
7: Score in autonomous.
8: Have great drivers, coach, and communication skills with the rest of the alliance.
9: Have a great Feeder who can follow instructions and feed alliance robots correctly.

[AlexD744]

Are people forgetting that touching the opponents pyramid is a technical foul? If I were a drive coach I would have the robot steer clear of the pyramid, let alone have them drive under it to play aggressive defense on another robot.

G27
ROBOTS may not contact or otherwise interfere with their opponents’ PYRAMID. Inconsequential contact will not be penalized.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent’s CLIMB is affected,

RED CARD, and
Each affected opponent ROBOT will be awarded points for a successful Level 3 CLIMB.

Also, I would tend to agree that an robot with mild offensive capabilities playing defense fits this years game better than a pure defensive robot. If I were a top end team, I would love my second pick to have a shooter, that simply gets the frisbees across the field from the feeder station and can hang for 10. No floor pickup, not even an accurate shooter, no 30 point hang and dumps. Just something to feed the disk hungry teams. After shooting a few, you can play defense on teams on your end of the field, come back and feed them more, etc. and then a 10 point climb at the end game. Also this strategy allows for a decent attempt at autonomous, even if it's in the middle or low goal.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by AlexD744

Are people forgetting that touching the opponents pyramid is a technical foul? If I were a drive coach I would have the robot steer clear of the pyramid, let alone have them drive under it to play aggressive defense on another robot.

Inconsequential contact will not be penalized - therefore I find it perfectly fine to utilize the space under the opponent's pyramid to drive around in for getaways or other fast travel. The real problem is avoiding robots that are touching their pyramid for sure.

[AlexD744]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

Inconsequential contact will not be penalized - therefore I find it perfectly fine to utilize the space under the opponent's pyramid to drive around in for getaways or other fast travel. The real problem is avoiding robots that are touching their pyramid for sure.

I think I'm going to see if I can Q&A what they mean by inconsequential in this rule. I've been trying to use my best judgement, and still struggling with it. My gut tells me that if you're playing defense on a robot underneath the pyramid (one that is not touching the pyramid) and you hit the pyramid, that would be a consequential contact, as something that you're doing at the time had a consequence on the outcome of the match.

On a slightly related note, if I have a Q&A account, how do I submit a question, do I need permission from my team or something?