Safely removing a level three climber

[chi-town-biker]

I’ve started planning how we will remove our robot from the pyramid after a level three climb. The robot will be over five feet from the floor and the top close to eight feet. We’re trying to keep the weight down but with battery and bumpers I expect we’ll approach 100 pounds. For testing and practice at school, we’re planning to use an engine hoist or gantry to lift the robot, roll away from the pyramid and lower it to the floor.

I’m less confident about our plan at competitions where special tools are not allowed and the belay system cannot be used for lifting the robot. Here is the procedure I’ve come up with so far.
1) Attach the belay system
2) Turn off the robot
3) Release the pressure on the pneumatic lines
4) Have two students stand between the second and third horizontal bars and lift the robot off the pyramid using secure handles made for lifting
5) The first two students hand the robot to the next two students who are standing between the first and second horizontal bars
6) The second pair of students hold the robot while the first pair climbs outside the pyramid
7) The second pair hand the robot to the first pair who set it on the floor
8) Detach the belay system and carry the robot off the field
In addition to safety glasses, we’re going to issue hard hats to the four students.

I’m mostly concerned about safely handing the robot from the first pair to the second pair. 100 pounds is a significant weight to handle overhead while constrained between a set of bars. Rather than lifting handles, a stout bar that can be grasped along the whole side of the robot may be better even if it is heavier. I hope others have considered this problem and I’m asking for suggestions on how we can improve our procedure.

As an aside, I do think a safer solution at competitions is for FIRST to provide a rolling engine hoist or gantry to teams. The gantry can be used to carry the weight of the robot, roll away from the pyramid, and lower the robot to the floor. Harbor Freight sells a gantry that is over 12 feet high for $650.

[ferret_guy]

I believe (I say this because all I have seen is from the field tour videos) that they are using the belay system to lower the robot so it would look somthing like this,

1) connect the belay system
2) release the pressure in the pneumatic system
3) Lower using the belay system
4) remove from field

But I agree with you that hard hats might be a very good thing to use

[Taylor]

The gantry system assumes that robots climb the outside of the pyramid ...

[Jon Stratis]

Check this Q&A:
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...fter-the-match

Q. May the belay system be used to lift the ROBOT a small distance to aid in releasing it from the PYRAMID before lowering the ROBOT after the MATCH?
A. No. The belay system is meant as a safety against falling ROBOTS, not a removal tool.

The belay system will not be used to lower the robot.


That said, the best way to lower the robot will likely not be between the bars. Stay either inside or outside the entire time, and if you end up inside, roll it out past the bars after its on the ground.

[chi-town-biker]

Originally Posted by Taylor

The gantry system assumes that robots climb the outside of the pyramid ...

The gantry could lower to the floor inside the pyramid and the students could push/carry the robot out. But to a wider point, removing a level three inside climber is safer than removing an outside climber.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Check this Q&A:
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...fter-the-match



The belay system will not be used to lower the robot.


That said, the best way to lower the robot will likely not be between the bars. Stay either inside or outside the entire time, and if you end up inside, roll it out past the bars after its on the ground.

Actually that Q&A said that it can't be used to LIFT the robot a small distance, (think like a hook wrapped on the pole, it would need to go up before going down)

The point of the belay system is to keep everything safe, in the event a student can't hold the 150 pounds of robot above their heads.

Why the belay system can't be used to help mitigate the risk of dropping a robot on a student? Beyond me.

[Natchez]

FIRST things FIRST ..... please explain how your robot gets to level three? If you would PLEASE post detail drawings and maybe some CAD models, this will certainly help us develop a safe plan for removal of your robot and our 'NEW' robot.

JUST JOKING ..... our robot is still sitting on the floor .... we hope to have the same safety concern one day .... thanks for making us think ahead and DREAM ,
Lucien

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Natchez

FIRST things FIRST ..... please explain how your robot get to level three? If you would PLEASE post detail drawings and maybe some CAD models, this will certainly help us develop a safe plan for removal of your robot and our 'NEW' robot.

JUST JOKING ..... our robot is still sitting on the floor .... we hope to have the same safety concern one day .... thanks for making us think ahead and DREAM ,
Lucien

Waaaaaaaiiiit ... Just a minute ... You're a Robonaut, right?
You've been done for three days. The reveal video is probably on youtube somewhere.

Oh wait it is.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by chi-town-biker

In addition to safety glasses, we’re going to issue hard hats to the four students.

We are going to be working with a trainer to figure out the best way to get our robot down. It will be practiced... we (like all teams) want to be safe

i would also add steel toed shoes/boots to your retrieval people. It might look funny but it works.

Hard hats are ok but I would be more worried about dropping the robot on a foot/feet.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

The point of the belay system is to keep everything safe, in the event a student can't hold the 150 pounds of robot above their heads.

Why the belay system can't be used to help mitigate the risk of dropping a robot on a student? Beyond me.

It is used to keep robots from falling on students. A staff member lets the rope out as you lower the robot by hand. If you somehow drop the robot, the staff member stops letting the rope out, and your robot is stopped before it can fall more than a few inches and significantly hurt people, the field, other robots or itself. One of FIRST's rules is that event staff touches teams' robots as little as possible, so they can't be held responsible as little if something gets broken.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

It is used to keep robots from falling on students. A staff member lets the rope out as you lower the robot by hand. If you somehow drop the robot, the staff member stops letting the rope out, and your robot is stopped before it can fall more than a few inches and significantly hurt people, the field, other robots or itself. One of FIRST's rules is that event staff touches teams' robots as little as possible, so they can't be held responsible as little if something gets broken.

Right, I wasn't very clear.

I meant why not just use the belay system entirely, have the team attach the belay ropes and then the staff member gently lets it down, instead of having to require the students to manhandle it down.

[runneals]

It says that you must use the FIRST belay line, but couldn't you potentially have a belay line of your own hooked up as well and lower it that way? You would need some climbing rope, a few carabiners, a belay device, and a climbing harness and one person could lower it. Just a thought... Would that be legal?

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by runneals

It says that you must use the FIRST belay line, but couldn't you potentially have a belay line of your own hooked up as well and lower it that way? You would need some climbing rope, a few carabiners, a belay device, and a climbing harness and one person could lower it. Just a thought... Would that be legal?

In short, no. You can't bring any extra equipment on to the field (like ladders) in order to remove your robot...

[chi-town-biker]

The game manual and the Q&A are clear--no special equipment and teams cannot use FIRST's belay system to lower the robot.

So far, no one has suggested how to remove an outside climbing robot except by handing the robot from one student to another like a bucket brigade.

[FrankJ]

So I guess a short drive team is out if you are trying for level 3 climb.

Rule G2 prevents teams from climbing on the pyramid. So teams will have to remove the robot while standing on the ground?