Safely removing a level three climber

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Check this Q&A:
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...fter-the-match



The belay system will not be used to lower the robot.


That said, the best way to lower the robot will likely not be between the bars. Stay either inside or outside the entire time, and if you end up inside, roll it out past the bars after its on the ground.

Actually that Q&A said that it can't be used to LIFT the robot a small distance, (think like a hook wrapped on the pole, it would need to go up before going down)

The point of the belay system is to keep everything safe, in the event a student can't hold the 150 pounds of robot above their heads.

Why the belay system can't be used to help mitigate the risk of dropping a robot on a student? Beyond me.

[Natchez]

FIRST things FIRST ..... please explain how your robot gets to level three? If you would PLEASE post detail drawings and maybe some CAD models, this will certainly help us develop a safe plan for removal of your robot and our 'NEW' robot.

JUST JOKING ..... our robot is still sitting on the floor .... we hope to have the same safety concern one day .... thanks for making us think ahead and DREAM ,
Lucien

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Natchez

FIRST things FIRST ..... please explain how your robot get to level three? If you would PLEASE post detail drawings and maybe some CAD models, this will certainly help us develop a safe plan for removal of your robot and our 'NEW' robot.

JUST JOKING ..... our robot is still sitting on the floor .... we hope to have the same safety concern one day .... thanks for making us think ahead and DREAM ,
Lucien

Waaaaaaaiiiit ... Just a minute ... You're a Robonaut, right?
You've been done for three days. The reveal video is probably on youtube somewhere.

Oh wait it is.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

The point of the belay system is to keep everything safe, in the event a student can't hold the 150 pounds of robot above their heads.

Why the belay system can't be used to help mitigate the risk of dropping a robot on a student? Beyond me.

It is used to keep robots from falling on students. A staff member lets the rope out as you lower the robot by hand. If you somehow drop the robot, the staff member stops letting the rope out, and your robot is stopped before it can fall more than a few inches and significantly hurt people, the field, other robots or itself. One of FIRST's rules is that event staff touches teams' robots as little as possible, so they can't be held responsible as little if something gets broken.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

It is used to keep robots from falling on students. A staff member lets the rope out as you lower the robot by hand. If you somehow drop the robot, the staff member stops letting the rope out, and your robot is stopped before it can fall more than a few inches and significantly hurt people, the field, other robots or itself. One of FIRST's rules is that event staff touches teams' robots as little as possible, so they can't be held responsible as little if something gets broken.

Right, I wasn't very clear.

I meant why not just use the belay system entirely, have the team attach the belay ropes and then the staff member gently lets it down, instead of having to require the students to manhandle it down.

[runneals]

It says that you must use the FIRST belay line, but couldn't you potentially have a belay line of your own hooked up as well and lower it that way? You would need some climbing rope, a few carabiners, a belay device, and a climbing harness and one person could lower it. Just a thought... Would that be legal?

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by runneals

It says that you must use the FIRST belay line, but couldn't you potentially have a belay line of your own hooked up as well and lower it that way? You would need some climbing rope, a few carabiners, a belay device, and a climbing harness and one person could lower it. Just a thought... Would that be legal?

In short, no. You can't bring any extra equipment on to the field (like ladders) in order to remove your robot...

[chi-town-biker]

The game manual and the Q&A are clear--no special equipment and teams cannot use FIRST's belay system to lower the robot.

So far, no one has suggested how to remove an outside climbing robot except by handing the robot from one student to another like a bucket brigade.

[FrankJ]

So I guess a short drive team is out if you are trying for level 3 climb.

Rule G2 prevents teams from climbing on the pyramid. So teams will have to remove the robot while standing on the ground?

[Jimmy Nichols]

We are considering all of this in our design. Also don't forget that you need to power off the robot, not just the air, but the circuit breaker as well. Which means you need to be able to reach that from the ground as well.

[Tem1514 Mentor]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nichols

We are considering all of this in our design. Also don't forget that you need to power off the robot, not just the air, but the circuit breaker as well. Which means you need to be able to reach that from the ground as well.

I have been looking over the rules and don't see anything that says you can't have more then one main breaker.

Can anyone confirm this?

[tsaksa]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

So I guess a short drive team is out if you are trying for level 3 climb.

Rule G2 prevents teams from climbing on the pyramid. So teams will have to remove the robot while standing on the ground?

I worry that for some teams attempting the 3rd level climb this may inadvertently mean no female drivers this year. If our team were picking a drive team that needed to have the height and upper body strength to safely remove a high climbing robot, without even a step stool, most if not all of the women that were on our drive team last year would be at a significant disadvantage this year. I hope there is some serious consideration of how the inflexibility in this rule as currently stated might end up affecting some students.

[vhcook]

Originally Posted by tsaksa

I worry that for some teams attempting the 3rd level climb this may inadvertently mean no female drivers this year. If our team were picking a drive team that needed to have the height and upper body strength to safely remove a high climbing robot, without even a step stool, most if not all of the women that were on our drive team last year would be at a significant disadvantage this year. I hope there is some serious consideration of how the inflexibility in this rule as currently stated might end up affecting some students.

You get four people on drive team. Hopefully you'd only need two tall folks to lower the robot (Two people detach the robot from the pyramid, one person spots the first two, one person grabs the operator console and pulls the cart around for loading).

Originally Posted by Tem1514 Mentor

I have been looking over the rules and don't see anything that says you can't have more then one main breaker.

Can anyone confirm this?

You can only have one main breaker. R38 requires that the main breaker be connected exactly as shown, which prevents installing a secondary.

[FrankJ]

I read the unpowered to mean that you will not be able to enable the robot to lower it. Similar to past years. I can see the safety people requiring the robot to be powered off by the breaker though. I don't see anything that requires the venting of the pneumatic system. Depending on the design, that might be a way to lower your robot.