Go to Post The problem with anecdotal evidence is that you never seem to get the whole anecdote. - Lea DeFoote [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:26
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

I am going through strategies and want YOUR opinion. Is it worth going for the 30 point hang if you have a great shooter? Considering space for shooter and climbing, what would YOU do???
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:27
MARS_James's Avatar
MARS_James MARS_James is offline
Always Scouting
AKA: James Comstock
FRC #0179 (The Children of The Swamp)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Jupiter, Florida
Posts: 1,968
MARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to MARS_James
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

If you have a great shooter and have space for an effective 30 point hanger I see no reason why you wouldn't
__________________
Driving Record: 24-8
Coaching Record: 66-31
2014 South Florida Regional Woodie Flowers Finalist


Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:31
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

What would you consider a "good shooter"? You can easily go for a 10 pt hang and get it in under 2 seconds but if you go for a 30 point hang and it takes about 20 seconds, would it be better to shoot to match those points? Maybe auto coming into play?
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:33
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,306
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

I would compare this to last season.
Do you try the 3 robot balance, or focus on shooting more baskets to try and win the match (with 1 or 2 robots balancing) during eliminations.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:35
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
I would compare this to last season.
Do you try the 3 robot balance, or focus on shooting more baskets to try and win the match (with 1 or 2 robots balancing) during eliminations.
Very true too, do you think there will be a large number of teams that can do a 30pt hang in under 15 seconds?
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:42
Brandon_L Brandon_L is offline
Someone told me there was food here
AKA: Brandon Liatys
FRC #2180 (Zero Gravity)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Newark, NJ
Posts: 1,206
Brandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon_L has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Personal opinions and quick not-too-exact math:


4 shots in the 2 point = 8 points/unload @ 10 seconds/clip

120 seconds/(takes a robot @10fps 5 seconds to cross a field*2 field lengths+5 second human loading time = 15 sec+10 sec/clip=25 seconds)=4.8 trips (round to 4)

4 trips * 8 points/trip = 32 points

plus maybe a 2 disc 2 pointer/disk auton = 2*2=4 * 2 (auton bonus) = 8

Subtotal 32+8=40

+ quick 10 point hang

50 points

Not taking into account for floor pickup near the end of the match, which would boost your score (quicker "trips" to load up) and shooting only at the 2 point goal. 50 points/match ain't bad if you ask me, and with the amount of extra practice time you'd have by keeping it simple with a shooter you can probably boost it a bit more, compared to spending forever solving a 30 point robot with a probably eh/no shooter.

Then there's the "load the colored discs, climb to the top, dump them in, 50 points" strategy. 50 points for a robot that's a 9 or 10 on a 1-10 scale of difficulty, or 50 points on a robot that's maybe a 4 or a 5. Your choice.

I also believe that any 30 point climber, except for if someone manages to pull off one that climbs the 68 degree pole, would pretty much take up your entire robot.
__________________
FRC 2495 - Hamilton West Robotics [2007-2014] - whats a..."hive mind"?
FRC 3929 - Atomic Dragons [2012-2013]
FRC 2180 - Zero Gravity [2017-]

Just trying to collect all the possible team colors

Last edited by Brandon_L : 17-01-2013 at 21:46.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:47
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_L View Post
Personal opinions and quick not-too-exact math:


4 shots in the 2 point = 8 points/unload @ 10 seconds/clip

120 seconds/(takes a robot @10fps 5 seconds to cross a field*2 field lengths+5 second human loading time = 15 sec+10 sec/clip=25 seconds)=4.8 trips (round to 4)

4 trips * 8 points/trip = 32 points

plus maybe a 2 disc 2 pointer/disk auton = 2*2=4 * 2 (auton bonus) = 8

Subtotal 32+8=40

+ quick 10 point hang

50 points

Not taking into account for floor pickup near the end of the match, which would boost your score (quicker "trips" to load up) and shooting only at the 2 point goal. 50 points/match ain't bad if you ask me, and with the amount of extra practice time you'd have by keeping it simple with a shooter you can probably boost it a bit more, compared to spending forever solving a 30 point robot with a probably eh/no shooter.

Then there's the "load the colored discs, climb to the top, dump them in, 50 points" strategy. 50 points for a robot that's a 9 or 10 on a 1-10 scale of difficulty, or 50 points on a robot that's maybe a 4 or a 5. Your choice.
That is what I was looking at. Our shooter in 7-8 at 54 feet in 3 point goal right now, and 6-6 in the 2pt and 3pt goal at half court. I feel we have good shooter but i figure if we can score two in auto at 3pt goal and 4-5 cycles in 3 pt goal during tel(not counting if we stay back at feeder station and shoot from there) and a 2 second 10pt hang will be good.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:49
z_beeblebrox's Avatar
z_beeblebrox z_beeblebrox is offline
Custom User Title
AKA: Cal
FRC #4183 (Bit Buckets)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 811
z_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Last year (unless they were 1717), teams scored more by doing the endgame than by shooting. I expect this year to be similar.
__________________
2012 Utah Regional Rookie All-Star
2013 Phoenix Regional Judge's Award for "design process and prototyping"
2014 Hub City Regional Quality Award, Arizona Regional Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Arizona East Regional Creativity Award, Winner
2016 Arizona North Regional Finalist, Arizona West Excellence in Engineering Award, Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 21:58
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by z_beeblebrox View Post
Last year (unless they were 1717), teams scored more by doing the endgame than by shooting. I expect this year to be similar.
Also have to look at world final matches on Einstein. I cant recall a triple balance, teams went for 2 bots balancing or less and kept shooting.
__________________
"Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:03
Botwoon's Avatar
Botwoon Botwoon is offline
A.K.A. Matthew Ruane
FRC #0207 (Metalcrafters)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 152
Botwoon will become famous soon enough
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie314 View Post
Also have to look at world final matches on Einstein. I cant recall a triple balance, teams went for 2 bots balancing or less and kept shooting.
Three of those alliances did win their divisions tripling, to be fair.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:07
Gregor's Avatar
Gregor Gregor is offline
#StickToTheStratisQuo
AKA: Gregor Browning
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,447
Gregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie314 View Post
Also have to look at world final matches on Einstein. I cant recall a triple balance, teams went for 2 bots balancing or less and kept shooting.
Might be due to the fact that there were rarely 3 moving robots for a given alliance at a given time. 3 of the 4 Einstein alliances had consistant triple balances.
__________________
What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity.” -Jean Dubuffet
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
FLL 2011-2015 Glen Ames Robotics-Student, Mentor
FRC 2012-2013 Team 907-Scouting Lead, Strategy Lead, Human Player, Driver
FRC 2014-2015 Team 1310-Mechanical, Electrical, Drive Captain
FRC 2011-xxxx Volunteer
How I came to be a FIRSTer
<Since 2011
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:10
Darth Drew's Avatar
Darth Drew Darth Drew is offline
Registered User
AKA: Andrew
FRC #1701 (Robo Cubs)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 37
Darth Drew is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

My team decided that the thirty point climb was too consuming of match time and space on the robot, but more importantly, we decided it would consume to much of the build season and leave us with little to no practice time. So we decided to focus on the shooter and leave our programming team with enough time to perfect an autonomous mode and our drive team with plenty of time to reduce transition time during feeding.
__________________
Join me and together we will rule the galaxy
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:14
RonnieS's Avatar
RonnieS RonnieS is offline
Just a tad washed up
AKA: Ronnie Sherrer
FRC #0314
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Flint/Warren
Posts: 389
RonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond reputeRonnieS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Very true on Einstein matches lol. But if your robot alone can get 50-80 points you are in good shape in my opinion. But we are in Michigan....States will for sure be interesting.
__________________
"Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:25
mikemat mikemat is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 88
mikemat has a spectacular aura aboutmikemat has a spectacular aura aboutmikemat has a spectacular aura about
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie314 View Post
Very true on Einstein matches lol. But if your robot alone can get 50-80 points you are in good shape in my opinion. But we are in Michigan....States will for sure be interesting.
IMO if your robot can get 20 points it will be in good shape. I think 50 to 80 would make you the star of most regionals. If history is anything to go by, the answer to this question is probably hang. In the games I have been a part of, only the top robots have been able to outscore the endgame, and most choose to attempt it anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2013, 22:27
pfreivald's Avatar
pfreivald pfreivald is offline
Registered User
AKA: Patrick Freivald
FRC #1551 (The Grapes of Wrath)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Naples, NY
Posts: 2,296
pfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_L View Post
I also believe that any 30 point climber, except for if someone manages to pull off one that climbs the 68 degree pole, would pretty much take up your entire robot.
A. It's a 60-degree pole.
B. Lots of teams will at least attempt the corner climb.
__________________
Patrick Freivald -- Mentor
Team 1551
"The Grapes of Wrath"
Bausch & Lomb, PTC Corporation, and Naples High School

I write books, too!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi