Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Might be http://d.pr/i/zwM

Last year if you had a drive train you could have balanced if someone let a bridge down for you... Yet in almost 60% of matches NO ONE balanced.

...and yet we let bridges down for lots of people and didn't get a balance with them at Buckeye...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

...and yet we let bridges down for lots of people and didn't get a balance with them at Buckeye...

Proving my point that teams seem to have this lack of ability to do even the simplest tasks reliably.

[RonnieS]

Not that they cant, they dont have the coaching to help and guide them towards that. Teams these days try to do the hardest tasks without realizing there ability might not go beyond the simple things.

[mrnoble]

FIRST provides evidence that many of us are optimists. I predict matches in the single digits and low doubles for the majority of regional seeding matches.

[RonnieS]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

FIRST provides evidence that many of us are optimists. I predict matches in the single digits and low doubles for the majority of regional seeding matches.

Ya our districts will be the same more than likely. Michigan is hard though!

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Ronnie314

Ya our districts will be the same more than likely. Michigan is hard though!

Anecdotally I want to agree with you but numerically the difference is not very big. The scoring distribution shifts to the right by a tiny amount.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

If it's any help, I think that less than less than 10% of FIRST teams will be able to outscore a 30pt hang using a 10 pt hang and disc pts accumulated during the last 30 seconds, and only 40% of teams will be able to outscore a 20pt hang during the last 30 seconds with discs and a 10pt.

If you can 30pt hang, (for most regions) that will automatically win you 60% of your qualifying matches. That's why it's so restrictive to 30pt hang this year; because it's so valuable.

[RonnieS]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

If it's any help, I think that less than less than 10% of FIRST teams will be able to outscore a 30pt hang using a 10 pt hang and disc pts accumulated during the last 30 seconds, and only 40% of teams will be able to outscore a 20pt hang during the last 30 seconds with discs and a 10pt.

If you can 30pt hang, (for most regions) that will automatically win you 60% of your qualifying matches. That's why it's so restrictive to 30pt hang this year; because it's so valuable.

You don't have to necessarily outscore them in the last 30 seconds if they can only shoot 2 Frisbee and the rest of the time they focus on lining up for hanging or defense and in that time you can score 4-5 loads of 4 disc in the 3 pt goal, 2 during auto in 3pt goal, and a 10 point hang in last couple seconds that is a max of 82 points.

[Bill_B]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Proving my point that teams seem to have this lack of ability to do even the simplest tasks reliably.

This is a quite pervasive characteristic of teenagers in general. Reliable behavior is not highly valued as being too predictable. "Who? Me? Conform to the norm? Get outta here, Grandpa!" A primary value of FRC is providing an activity that demonstrates that reliability and predictability are worthwhile goals.

[CalTran]

Not attacking anyone but some people need to step back a second for climbing. Reading through this, a lot of people are doing weird 1v3 scenarios...I believe the OP was going for 1v1 climb vs shoot.
That in mind, a good shooter should be able to make up the thirty points with three in autonomous, and one trip of four. They can make up fifty with the in autonomous, and then three runs back to the feeder. The runs polls lining up is pushing it a little...you could do two runs and a hang but that's slightly more mechanical difficulty.

[RonnieS]

I believe auto will be the most important thing this year based in the fact that with a well executed auto u can score mega points, and if u can shoot/score in auto u more than likely can I teleoporated, only adding to your score. I have heard of too many teams who are focusing on climbing before shooting...I do not agree.

[MichaelBick]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Not attacking anyone but some people need to step back a second for climbing. Reading through this, a lot of people are doing weird 1v3 scenarios...I believe the OP was going for 1v1 climb vs shoot.
That in mind, a good shooter should be able to make up the thirty points with three in autonomous, and one trip of four. They can make up fifty with the in autonomous, and then three runs back to the feeder. The runs polls lining up is pushing it a little...you could do two runs and a hang but that's slightly more mechanical difficulty.

With lifting you can score 30 pts alone.If you concentrate on shooting instead of hanging, I think it is quite easy to get to the point where you are making all you auton shots in the top basket. Add to this 1 4 frisbee run during the last 30 seconds of a match and you are equal to the pts scored by a lifter.

If you add capabilities to each robot(dumper to lifter and 10pt lift to shooter) it gets a little bit more interesting. The dumper can now score 50 pts just by lifting and dumping + 6pts in auton(50+6=56). However the shooter can score 18pts in auton + 12 pts in the last 30 seconds of a match + 10 pt lift(18+12+10=40). The question is whether the risk of a 3lvl lift is worth the high risk, whether your team has the capability to build a lifter, and whether the extra time spent of lifting could be better utilized by shooting.

For example, an intake(mainly for auton) has a huge benefit to a shooter. It potentially increases the score of a shooter by up to 24 pts(4 frisbees in auton). This game is truly about taking a side based on the capabilities of your team and the risk they are willing to take.

[RonnieS]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

With lifting you can score 30 pts alone.If you concentrate on shooting instead of hanging, I think it is quite easy to get to the point where you are making all you auton shots in the top basket. Add to this 1 4 frisbee run during the last 30 seconds of a match and you are equal to the pts scored by a lifter.

If you add capabilities to each robot(dumper to lifter and 10pt lift to shooter) it gets a little bit more interesting. The dumper can now score 50 pts just by lifting and dumping + 6pts in auton(50+6=56). However the shooter can score 18pts in auton + 12 pts in the last 30 seconds of a match + 10 pt lift(18+12+10=40). The question is whether the risk of a 3lvl lift is worth the high risk, whether your team has the capability to build a lifter, and whether the extra time spent of lifting could be better utilized by shooting.

For example, an intake(mainly for auton) has a huge benefit to a shooter. It potentially increases the score of a shooter by up to 24 pts(4 frisbees in auton). This game is truly about taking a side based on the capabilities of your team and the risk they are willing to take.

In this game your robot could have the best functions that never work because of poor drivers, and good driver will make a bad robot better like always but I believe this year it will be a lot about your teams driver practice and how good they really are.

[MysterE]

I think a large part of what a team should do depends on where it wants to be in the rankings. Because of the importance of Auto and Climbing points in the FMS, it would seem that focusing on those two aspects alone may be worth a good amount of time.

The debate on our team always centers around the difference between complex mechanisms and complex strategies. We are working on a shooter, 30 point climber, and floor/slot pickup. This sounds complex - but at the same time we are working on designing the most simplistic mechanisms that we can and working on items in order of importance. So - while our frame will be designed to allow for a floor pickup, it will be the last thing that we ultimately build. The first is the shooter/slot feeder, second is the climber, and last will be the floor.

This will not leave us a lot of time of practice with our robot initially, but creating a post-build practice bot will. Its going to be interesting.