Prelim Photon Cannon Test

[Undertones]

We used a latest generation Maglight for our tests, and I was seeing spots for about 5 minutes after looking at the beam even from a fairly high angle. I don't think my eyes are particularly light sensitive, but having a bunch of high powered flashlights on the field could potentially be eye-damaging or at least seriously annoying. I realize that the easy solution is to wear tinted safetys, but I don't think anyone really wants to do that.

[Anupam Goli]

How exactly would you tune the photon gate as your primary aiming system? Would you have the driver look for a certain arc height, intensity, or what? I've become mildly interested in using this, especially so the drivers wouldn't have to hunch over and look on the screen to aim.

[lemiant]

To further elaborate on Mac's point. We were actually wondering whether FIRST would disallow the configuration we were testing as either a safety hazard or an attempt to interfere with the vision of the opposing drivers (as our goals are directly above the opposing drivers). What lights are you guys finding give you the most effective and concentrated beam?

[EricS-Team180]

Originally Posted by Wing

How exactly would you tune the photon gate as your primary aiming system? Would you have the driver look for a certain arc height, intensity, or what? I've become mildly interested in using this, especially so the drivers wouldn't have to hunch over and look on the screen to aim.

You want to design a targeting system to keep you driver and operator's eyes on the field! Lining up and shooting quickly is critical to getting a lot of shots on-goal. Leave Dashboards for the coaches, if need be...and for trouble-shooting in-game robot issues.

For an automatic targeting system, a driver/operator needs to be able to engage/dis-engage the system and trust that the software/hardware can line up the shot. Or they won't use it...period.

In 2012, for a manual system, we tweaked and tweaked the flashlight mount, tweaked and tweaked the shooter angle and speed, and practiced and practiced with the driver to define a "sweet spot" on the target above the basket. Position the robot to hit the sweet spot with the flashlight, and make the basket.

thanks,
Eric

[karomata]

Make sure its not going to blind the drivers, or else you could get penalties...

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by lemiant

To further elaborate on Mac's point. We were actually wondering whether FIRST would disallow the configuration we were testing as either a safety hazard or an attempt to interfere with the vision of the opposing drivers (as our goals are directly above the opposing drivers). What lights are you guys finding give you the most effective and concentrated beam?

Again, as someone who was at one point on the other side of 25's light, initially (ie. right as the match began), it was a distraction, but it was more of just an "aaah light!", and from then on, it wasn't really a distraction(ie. the distraction didn't last long). IMO there were other teams with bright LED rings that proved more of a distraction.

[DjScribbles]

I would expect that if this idea takes off, it may get shutdown by R08, especially brighter lights like the one shown; which you stated you will replace with something less distracting, but copycats may not follow suit, thus creating a ruckus and causing the rules to tighten up significantly.

R08

ROBOT parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the operation of other ROBOTS.

Examples of items that will violate R08 include (but are not limited to):

A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used to obstruct or limit the vision of any drivers and/or coaches and/or interfere with their ability to safely control their ROBOT

[ToddF]

As long as no team lodges a official complaint, I would not expect to see anyone penalized under R08.

There is a defined mechanism for a team to notify the referee that they were distracted during the match.

T13 If a TEAM needs clarification on a ruling or score, one (1) pre-college student from that TEAM should address the Head Referee after the ARENA reset signal (i.e. PLAYER STATION LED strings turn green). A TEAM member signals their desire to speak with the Head Referee by standing in the Red or Blue Question Box, which are located on the floor at each end of the scoring table. Depending on timing, the Head Referee may postpone any requested discussion until the end of the subsequent MATCH.

If, after a match, all three teams lodged a distraction complaint, and this happened after every match in which a robot with a strong light played, I would expect the referees to do something about it. But, the referees will not attempt to read minds, and won't do anything about the rule if no one lodges a complaint.

[Peyton Yeung]

We got some pretty powerful (1000lumen) bike lights in today and they work very well. We plan on covering the edges so it is more focused and less blinding.

[Kusha]

Is this really a good alternative to vision targeting?

[Peyton Yeung]

We are hoping to use it as a supplement. Every venue is different and with it the lighting changes so if our camera doesn't work then this is already in place. Plus this is a bit faster than the camera tracking software we had.

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

Originally Posted by Kusha

Is this really a good alternative to vision targeting?

That is up to your driver. As stated earlier;

Originally Posted by EricS-Team180

We started off with both an automatic vision targeting system... and the manual targeting of the driver with the flashlight. The driver got so good with the photon cannon... that he abandoned the auto-targeting.

Only after trying out both vision targeting and a light will you be able to tell which is right for your driver. The flashlight was stuck on our 'bot last year just to please the mighty George Wallace. A few were skeptical at first. But our driver liked it much better, and that's what stayed with our 'bot through all of the competitions. As with any idea, it's hard to tell what is a better alternative until implementation. Though I still agree with some of the other posts. Be careful with your aiming. A light straight to the eye of the opposing alliance is not a good thing.

[Garrett.d.w]

We are probably going to do this, but use a slightly smaller light and have it on a spike so that we only have it on when we need to use it.

[Billfred]

2815 picked up a spot-beam tractor light yesterday for this purpose--our quick test (wires to a robot battery) showed a much more focused beam than the video. We may yet put it on a Spike more out of current draw concern than blinding the other side; mounted sufficiently low, I doubt we'll get close enough to shine it on the drivers. Failing that, we may add some barn doors to it once we've determined the sweet spot.

[lynca]

Will teams be using the photo cannons this year?
If so, which lights are you using ?

I could see how a photo cannon might be useful to shoot frisbees into the pyramid goal or 2-point goal, but it doesn't seem necessary for the 3-point goal.

The pyramid is a good alignment device this year to make shots on the 3-point goal.