Shooting full court?

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by PizzaBoxZombie

From all these videos being posted of shooters shooting further than the length of the field accurately, how many cookies were you planning on giving out?

No one's called me on it yet, and I don't expect them to. Those shooter videos are poor simulations of game conditions. They are perfectly lined up, with no robots and pyramid in the way, and those shooters don't have to worry about defenders. We won't be seeing that much in actual game play (and never in regards to the pyramid).

Also, looking at last year indicates that few robots will be able to pull off full court shots. Given, frisbees are more consistent than those awful foam balls. Last year, we saw a fair number of full court shot videos, and essentialy no robots that bothered to shoot full court. But, it's a lot more possible to shoot full court this year, given the aerodynamics of frisbees. So I suspect that we'll see a few teams that shoot full court.

The 30% comes from my belief that it's just hard to hit a target acurately in FRC. Simbotics had a percentage around 60% last year, usually at very close range. Half that seems like a reasonable number.

Originally Posted by DampRobot

No one's called me on it yet, and I don't expect them to. Those shooter videos are poor simulations of game conditions. They are perfectly lined up, with no robots and pyramid in the way, and those shooters don't have to worry about defenders. We won't be seeing that much in actual game play (and never in regards to the pyramid).

Also, looking at last year indicates that few robots will be able to pull off full court shots. Given, frisbees are more consistent than those awful foam balls. Last year, we saw a fair number of full court shot videos, and essentialy no robots that bothered to shoot full court. But, it's a lot more possible to shoot full court this year, given the aerodynamics of frisbees. So I suspect that we'll see a few teams that shoot full court.

The 30% comes from my belief that it's just hard to hit a target acurately in FRC. Simbotics had a percentage around 60% last year, usually at very close range. Half that seems like a reasonable number.

If we shoot 3/4 the court, can we get 3/4 a cookie?

I expect my cookie at Sacramento.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

If we shoot 3/4 the court, can we get 3/4 a cookie?

I expect my cookie at Sacramento.

Well...

To reiterate, the bet was that there would be no team in FRC that could shoot full court and make more than 30% of shots. I'll clarify that by defining "full court" as from the alliance feeder stations or behind, and "30%" as making that percentage of three or two point shots over either Quals or Elims. Let's agree that making one hail mary shot does not count.

[TheCrayButton]

We can shoot full court pretty well actually. It is accurate too.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzIke...er_profilepage


We are planning on shooting full court most of the time. Unlike last year, frisbee's are more stable and accurate while traveling long distances.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by TheCrayButton

We can shoot full court pretty well actually. It is accurate too.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzIke...er_profilepage


We are planning on shooting full court most of the time. Unlike last year, frisbee's are more stable and accurate while traveling long distances.

But like last year a defensive robot can be 84" tall on their side of the court. How exactly are you guys planning to combat a wall?

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

But like last year a defensive robot can be 84" tall on their side of the court. How exactly are you guys planning to combat a wall?

You really don't have to. If you have a bot that is able to score reliably enough from the feeder zone (with no D played on you) then you will invite dedicated defense, unless your opponents have a comparable full court shooter to keep up with yours. If they play D, then you maneuver until you can get a good shot (significantly reducing your scoring frequency and/or accuracy) but you still have tied up an opponent bot that is doing nothing but sticking near you and not scoring himself. If that bot wants to climb and abandon defense, and you continue to shoot, you will likely outscore the climber with an accurate full court shooter, assuming you still have a disc supply (not an unreasonable assumption.)

[TheCrayButton]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

How exactly are you guys planning to combat a wall?

We plan on maneuvering around them. We are a small robot that has a lot of pushing power. We can use that to our advantage. Also, the good defender robots will not only defend, but they will climb the tower. So in the time it takes for them to climb the tower, we could be banking shoots. In the past years, defender robotics really don't stick around to long because there is a "end game" task that they want to do. So therefore, you have about 30sec to shoot as many off as possible.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by TheCrayButton

We plan on maneuvering around them. We are a small robot that has a lot of pushing power. We can use that to our advantage. Also, the good defender robots will not only defend, but they will climb the tower. So in the time it takes for them to climb the tower, we could be banking shoots. In the past years, defender robotics really don't stick around to long because there is a "end game" task that they want to do. So therefore, you have about 30sec to shoot as many off as possible.

To be clear -- you're expecting to build a robot that is capable of accurately scoring from 50+' from an arbitrary position on the field that also has the ability to collect frisbees from the ground, store them and shoot them -- again from an arbitrary position on the field?

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by TheCrayButton

We plan on maneuvering around them. We are a small robot that has a lot of pushing power. We can use that to our advantage. Also, the good defender robots will not only defend, but they will climb the tower. So in the time it takes for them to climb the tower, we could be banking shoots. In the past years, defender robotics really don't stick around to long because there is a "end game" task that they want to do. So therefore, you have about 30sec to shoot as many off as possible.

You're assuming a lot of things. If I'm doing match strategy and there's a robot that can "bank shots for 30 seconds full court", why would I tell a team to stop defending them. Stopping my opponents from scoring 30+ is just as good as scoring 30+ myself.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by TheCrayButton

We plan on maneuvering around them. We are a small robot that has a lot of pushing power. We can use that to our advantage. Also, the good defender robots will not only defend, but they will climb the tower. So in the time it takes for them to climb the tower, we could be banking shoots. In the past years, defender robotics really don't stick around to long because there is a "end game" task that they want to do. So therefore, you have about 30sec to shoot as many off as possible.

If we know that you'll score more in disks in the last 30 seconds that we'll score on the tower, why on Earth would we stop defending you?

I suspect you'll find in quals that there are more than enough defenders that have nothing to do but sit on you. (In elims, this will still be true, but they'll also be good at slowing you down on the way to the feeder station.) You're not creating a 3-on-2 scenario, you're creating a 2-on-2 one, only the robot you take from them in the lowest scorer while the one you take from yours is well, you.

To be clear, I'm not disparaging you of the strategy, just advising you think more about it. What can you do to up your competitive advantage?


To Madison's very good question, I really hope "maneuvering around them" means "within the area of the loading zone" rather than in the open field. Have you simulated this with accurate/scale sizes? I think you're in for a heck of a surprise either way.

[waialua359]

I'd go with the safe bet that shooting from the "safe zone," where a 84" blockade has no effect on you shooting at the 3 point target, as the best way of making shots....right?

[TheCrayButton]

Originally Posted by Madison

To be clear -- you're expecting to build a robot that is capable of accurately scoring from 50+' from an arbitrary position on the field that also has the ability to collect frisbees from the ground, store them and shoot them -- again from an arbitrary position on the field?

Yes ma'am! We are planning on doing that. Now, lets see if we can actually get that done! That is the trick! At the end of this week, we should have the robot ready to go. I will post a video when it is done.

[TheCrayButton]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

You're assuming a lot of things. If I'm doing match strategy and there's a robot that can "bank shots for 30 seconds full court", why would I tell a team to stop defending them. Stopping my opponents from scoring 30+ is just as good as scoring 30+ myself.

Yeah, i do tend to assume a lot of things but yeah that is very true. Then obviously we wouldn't keep trying to shoot at back of the field. We would just move to the back of the pyramid and shoot 3's there.

[TheCrayButton]

To be clear, I'm not disparaging you of the strategy, just advising you think more about it. What can you do to up your competitive advantage?

Yeah I totally understand what you are saying. I have been in robotics for over 3 years and I know what to expect.

I agree with you, and I know there will be a lot of defenders. I know that for a fact.

[karomata]

The problem with full court shooting is that accuracy is at its worst, and for defense a team can literally just sit in front of you and block your shots. I think the better teams will have aiming aids for their drivers, such as targeting systems, possibly visible lasers, and probably a multitude of other things. Worst fear is that matches are boring because all that happens is teams shoot from the other side of the field and constantly miss.