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Unread 31-01-2013, 13:14
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Re: At what point does it become unacceptable for a mentor to design/build the robot

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So what we need is for the KOP to include a mill, laser jet, lathe, and 3D printer (all CnC, of course), so that everyone can do everything exactly the same way! Yay, uniformity!
Including all that in the KOP wouldn't make any difference to the high-caliber teams. They probably wouldn't even open it, all their manufacturing is outsourced anyway. Like 1075guy said, their emphasis is on the design and engineering, not the manufacturing. If you can do the engineering, there's thousands of machine shops that can do the manufacturing for you.
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Unread 31-01-2013, 15:03
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Re: At what point does it become unacceptable for a mentor to design/build the robot

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Originally Posted by 45Auto View Post
Including all that in the KOP wouldn't make any difference to the high-caliber teams. They probably wouldn't even open it, all their manufacturing is outsourced anyway. Like 1075guy said, their emphasis is on the design and engineering, not the manufacturing. If you can do the engineering, there's thousands of machine shops that can do the manufacturing for you.
[Irony]Sorry, should have used these.[/Irony]
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Unread 31-01-2013, 16:44
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Re: At what point does it become unacceptable for a mentor to design/build the robot

While Im hesitant to weigh in on a thread like this (and my views don't necessarily reflect my team's ), someone a while back put this nicely.

With us, mentors basically function as students. Its quite a nice balance. Mentors are there to mentor, but Id say that doesnt really place them far above all the students on our team. We all work together, and while Ive learned alot from our mentors, and Im very thankful for that, Ive taught them a few things too, as well as our mentors learning from each other. Not all mentors are super experts. This segways (Ha...Ha ha... Segway ) into our brainstorming. I find it hard to believe that some teams automatically put their mentors ideas before the student's purely because it came from an adult. Most of the ideas our team is using came from students, and when they come up, are evaluated the same way as mentor's ideas. You have it, now explain its feasibility, function, ect. to us. I mess up on our team, but our mentor's arn't infallible either.

I believe I got this from Karthik's (Sorry if I butchered that) from 1114 strategy video. Dont take people's word on things. Get the explanation, and have it make sense before you accept it as fact. It will help you more in the long run anyhow if you know why or how something occurs.

I love it, getting to work alongside real world engineers, and while I believe that having the mentors completely out of the building, more as observers and guiders, there is something to be said for working with these great people. Guess what (and though this isn't the goal of being a mentor), mentors like FRC too, its really fun to go through an engineering process so fast and have a working model (hopefully) in only six weeks. Our mentors want to design, build, and succeed just as much as us students do. I hate to do say it with these words but...We're all in this together.
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Last edited by dellagd : 31-01-2013 at 16:54.
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Unread 31-01-2013, 23:57
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Re: At what point does it become unacceptable for a mentor to design/build the robot

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Originally Posted by dellagd View Post
I love it, getting to work alongside real world engineers, and while I believe that having the mentors completely out of the building, more as observers and guiders, there is something to be said for working with these great people. Guess what (and though this isn't the goal of being a mentor), mentors like FRC too, its really fun to go through an engineering process so fast and have a working model (hopefully) in only six weeks. Our mentors want to design, build, and succeed just as much as us students do. I hate to do say it with these words but...We're all in this together.
If your mentors don't like FRC, I don't know why they would ever continue to be in it. It has to be fun and engaging for everyone on the team to keep it surviving. Just as a team with no students can't survive, a team without mentors to bridge between the generations of students won't either.

I don't really have a whole lot to add to this discussion, but I will mention that sometimes mentors get very involved in the design or build because they themselves are not yet at a point to mentor effectively. Just as an anecdotal example, all of the engineering mentors on the team I am currently with come from an Electrical, Computer, or Systems Engineering background. Since Mechanical Engineering is not in any of our backgrounds we're sometimes learning ourselves during build season, which obviously makes it more difficult to effectively teach this information to the students as well. Maybe that's an aspect I like about FRC as well though... I don't get to work on mechanical designs in my job, and doing so in FRC is a good way to continue learning.
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Unread 01-02-2013, 11:53
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
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Re: At what point does it become unacceptable for a mentor to design/build the robot

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Originally Posted by Donut View Post

I don't really have a whole lot to add to this discussion, but I will mention that sometimes mentors get very involved in the design or build because they themselves are not yet at a point to mentor effectively.
This is an excellent comment and deserves its own thread. A healthy discussion on the topic of mentoring effectively - and what that means - would be an excellent discussion, I trust.

Jane
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