<R31> Regarding Split numbered bumpers

[Joe Johnson]

Hey folks,
Sorry if this has already been answered clearly somewhere. We are so far behind, I haven't been able to keep up.

Regarding Rule R31 and Splitting numbers over a gap in our bumper.

We have a 32" wide robot with a 16" gap in the mid section (32"-8"-8"=16" gap max on this side).

Can we split our team number '1234' as '12' on the left and '34' on the right?

Joe J.

[Hallry]

According to the blue box under R31:

There is no prohibition against splitting Team numbers onto different sections of BUMPER. The intent is that the Team’s number is clearly visible and unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS.

So, as long as people are able to quickly and easily know what team you are from looking at your bumpers, then yes, you are allowed to split your team numbers onto different sections of your bumper.

[Qbot2640]

I believe the intention behind a permission to split numbers is to have them on adjacent sections. For example, if your design results in an octagonal base for some reason, you could split your numbers across a vertex of the octagon. It seems to me that, while possibly legal, splitting your number across a wide gap may not meet the "unambiguous" requirement...1234 could look like 12 from one angle, 34 from another, and 1234 from straight on. Our bumpers are going to be just a bit more than 8" - and there is still plenty of room for four digits. Just choose one side of the gap - we're going with numbers on the right.

[Mark McLeod]

I wouldn't think splitting the team number over a 16" gap would get past the inspectors. That wasn't permitted last year.

The digits have to be close enough to be easily considered a single number, not two separate numbers.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

The blue box reference is correct, numbers can be split with the clear intent that numbers be "unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS." This may be difficult for teams with numbers 22, 2222, 11, 1111, etc. I tell teams when asked, "you want to play on Saturday, right? Then you have to be sure you can be identified from the stands."

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

The blue box reference is correct, numbers can be split with the clear intent that numbers be "unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS." This may be difficult for teams with numbers 22, 2222, 11, 1111, etc. I tell teams when asked, "you want to play on Saturday, right? Then you have to be sure you can be identified from the stands."

So... ...to pick a number number at random, suppose I wanted to label a robot 3958. Could I put 39 on the Left and 58 on the rear?

It is going to be really hard/impossible to get a 4 digit number on one side or the other (each only 11" wide including the 8" + the 3" from the edge of the side bumper)

I am not part of the Fairness Cult but this seems like a pretty big deal for 4 digit teams. If a 3 digit team can have an 8" bumper and a 4 digit team needs a wider one, ... ...well... that kinda stinks.

Joe J.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

So... ...to pick a number number at random, suppose I wanted to label a robot 3958. Could I put 39 on the Left and 58 on the rear?

It is going to be really hard/impossible to get a 4 digit number on one side or the other (each only 11" wide including the 8" + the 3" from the edge of the side bumper)

I am not part of the Fairness Cult but this seems like a pretty big deal for 4 digit teams. If a 3 digit team can have an 8" bumper and a 4 digit team needs a wider one, ... ...well... that kinda stinks.

Joe J.

4 digit teams managed on 8" of bumpers last year. It can be done.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Gregor

4 digit teams managed on 8" of bumpers last year. It can be done.

And that was when a 3/4" stroke with was required... now we're down to 1/2" stroke width, per R31

[Chris is me]

I don't see how the rule is ambiguous at all. The rules clearly state you can split numbers as long as when you look at a robot you know it doesn't belong to, say, teams 39 or 58. (Ironically, these teams both exist)

Have you considered something like putting 39- on one side and -58 on the other? Hyphens might make it look less ambiguous.

That said, keep in mind you actually have 10.5" of bumper fabric to write your number on an 8" bumper.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I don't see how the rule is ambiguous at all. The rules clearly state you can split numbers as long as when you look at a robot you know it doesn't belong to, say, teams 39 or 58. (Ironically, these teams both exist)

Have you considered something like putting 39- on one side and -58 on the other? Hyphens might make it look less ambiguous.

That said, keep in mind you actually have 10.5" of bumper fabric to write your number on an 8" bumper.

Hyphens? If that works fine. What do others think?

Joe J.

[brrian27]

Don't do the split. We did a split last year over our floor pickup area, and ended up having to make ducttape numbers during inspection to fit them on one side. It won't get past inspection.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by brrian27

Don't do the split. We did a split last year over our floor pickup area, and ended up having to make ducttape numbers during inspection to fit them on one side. It won't get past inspection.

The restriction on split numbers was LAST YEAR. This year's rules clearly states that there is no restriction on split numbers, only that your numbers must be clear and unambiguous.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by CalTran

The restriction on split numbers was LAST YEAR. This year's rules clearly states that there is no restriction on split numbers, only that your numbers must be clear and unambiguous.

If you have a gap of 16 inches between the split numbers, and your robot is partially obscured by a field element or other robot so that I can't see the other two digits (but can see the gap), then you have ambiguity.

8" of bumper plus the corner space of 3.25" is 11.25 of space. At .5" stroke, with 1" gap between digits, that only takes about 9". And there is a .75 stroke font we created and used last year that also fit nicely on a minimal bumper. It is free to use for any team:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2630

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Joe,
We have used split numbers for years without too much trouble. Last year the GDC introduced the change thinking it would help in refs doing the real time scoring. So you can do whatever is easiest for your team. With a team number like 3958, refs should not have a hard time figuring it out. The team numbers I pointed out above could be confusing if both teams 22 and 2222 competed in the same event and 2222 split their numbers. The eight inch rule was actually established by calculating the width needed to fit "8888" on a bumper with the corner added.
Now if you are like me/us (WildStang) we have a hard enough time coloring inside the lines and getting the team number right side up!

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

If you have a gap of 16 inches between the split numbers, and your robot is partially obscured by a field element or other robot so that I can't see the other two digits (but can see the gap), then you have ambiguity.

How is that more ambiguous then a robot with contiguous bumper numbers when 2 numbers are obscured by field element?

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

The blue box reference is correct, numbers can be split with the clear intent that numbers be "unambiguous so that Judges, Referees, Announcers, and other Teams can easily identify competing ROBOTS." This may be difficult for teams with numbers 22, 2222, 11, 1111, etc. I tell teams when asked, "you want to play on Saturday, right? Then you have to be sure you can be identified from the stands."

I can see it being an issue for a team 1111 in which the numbers are all split, however, on a normal robot with contiguous numbers on 3 sides and split numbers on the front, that doesn't seem like an issue.