<R31> Regarding Split numbered bumpers

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Joe,
We have used split numbers for years without too much trouble. Last year the GDC introduced the change thinking it would help in refs doing the real time scoring. So you can do whatever is easiest for your team. With a team number like 3958, refs should not have a hard time figuring it out. The team numbers I pointed out above could be confusing if both teams 22 and 2222 competed in the same event and 2222 split their numbers. The eight inch rule was actually established by calculating the width needed to fit "8888" on a bumper with the corner added.
Now if you are like me/us (WildStang) we have a hard enough time coloring inside the lines and getting the team number right side up!

So, when you use split numbers, how does WildStang split them? 1 and 11, or do you chop the middle 1 in half?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Now if you are like me/us (WildStang) we have a hard enough time coloring inside the lines and getting the team number right side up!

Yep, getting "111" right side up definitely sounds like a challenge.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

I am not part of the Fairness Cult but this seems like a pretty big deal for 4 digit teams. If a 3 digit team can have an 8" bumper and a 4 digit team needs a wider one, ... ...well... that kinda stinks.

Joe J.

We had no problem with fitting all 4 of our numbers on an 8" bumper last year

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

I am not part of the Fairness Cult but this seems like a pretty big deal for 4 digit teams. If a 3 digit team can have an 8" bumper and a 4 digit team needs a wider one, ... ...well... that kinda stinks.

Joe J.

It's not a big deal at all - we're 2640...all four of our digits are "full size" so to speak (no 1's) and it is no problem at all making it fit nicely in 8 inches of bumper...and as the OP stated, they have 11.25.

I VERY STRONGLY advise against this split. Last year we had to totally re-construct our front and rear bumper at Championship over an interpretation that was just as "trivial." Five out of six judges said it was fine...the sixth wouldn't budge, so rather than spend our first day on more meaningful adjustments our "advance pit crew" rebuilt bumpers that had been acceptable at Regional. Do you really want to risk the loss of valuable time like that?

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

Five out of six judges said it was fine...

inspectors wear yellow hats
Referees wear striped shirts
Judges wear blue polo shirts

If judges were telling you your bumpers were wrong, go find an inspector and set them straight

[EricLeifermann]

I'm assuming that the split is only on the front/back of the robot. If that is the case the left/right sides will have their numbers easily seen and all continuous. There are numbers on 4 sides on the robot, if you are having trouble seeing the number from 1 side wait 5 sec and odds are the robot will turn and you will see a different side. The rules this year allow split numbers so I wouldn't worry about splitting your numbers over 2 bumpers. There is also no rule that says if your bumpers are covered by something during a match that you still have to be able to read them.

That said 2826 isn't splitting our numbers over our bumpers.

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by rsisk

inspectors wear yellow hats
Referees wear striped shirts
Judges wear blue polo shirts

If judges were telling you your bumpers were wrong, go find an inspector and set them straight

I mis-spoke - they were "inspectors" during the initial check-in inspection.

Still my main point - it is not worth the risk.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

Five out of six judges inspectors said it was fine...the sixth wouldn't budge,...

If the sixth inspector was the Lead Robot Inspector, it's his or her job to make the final decision. All the other inspectors defer to the LRI's "opinion".

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Qbot2640

I VERY STRONGLY advise against this split. Last year we had to totally re-construct our front and rear bumper at Championship over an interpretation that was just as "trivial."

Last year there was no wiggle in the interpretation, they could not be split. This year there is a easy interpretation of the rule and split numbers are legal.
Al

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Now if you are like me/us (WildStang) we have a hard enough time coloring inside the lines

Ahhhh. Now we know why they tie-dye!

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Last year there was no wiggle in the interpretation, they could not be split. This year there is a easy interpretation of the rule and split numbers are legal.
Al

I apologize for not being completely clear - the "last year issue" I refer to had nothing to do with split team numbers. The "Lead Inspector" in our situation did not make an immediate decision, attempting to see if consensus would develop, when it did not, he supported the decision of the original inspector. It was our team's distinct impression, however, that he would not have found issue with the situation otherwise.

I am only trying to make the point that there are some times when an interpretation of rules goes a direction you do not expect or possibly agree with. It has seemed to me (and to many others I have spoken with) that inspectors often get a bit zealous with bumper rules. Given how easy it is to fit the numbers neatly on the right or left corner bumper (as demonstrated by the nice 1523 photo above), I would not push my luck on this one. It is much easier to come up with an attractive compromise in the team's robot shop with time and tools and materials, than in an 8X8 pit with the pressure of competition looming and a travel-size subset of team's resources.

[Steve W]

This year if the numbers are split, I as an LRI, would allow according to the present rules. I would suggest that the numbers be close to each other on the sides of the opening. If on opposite sides of the bumper, it would be allowed but as Al said, do you want to be playing Saturday afternoon. If teams miss your number then you may not be chosen.

[toastnbacon]

I would do all that you can to not split your numbers, but if there's no other option, I would split per the xx- -yy option. I think it would be legal (this year) either way. However, all the other pragmatic reasons still stand. It'll be easier for spectators and judges (or refs or whomever) to see, and at the end of the day, that's what matters most. It's the objective of the rules, and if it's achieved, I think the inspectors will let it pass.

That being said, my ruling isn't law. I'll send you a grain of salt later.

[Steve W]

Remember that numbers can be on your bumpers. The - - after and before may not. Al, what's your say?

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

I am not part of the Fairness Cult but this seems like a pretty big deal for 4 digit teams. If a 3 digit team can have an 8" bumper and a 4 digit team needs a wider one, ... ...well... that kinda stinks.

So, in conclusion, why not try to fit all 4 digits onto one bumper-ette?

1/2" stroke width means 1.5" wide numbers. 1/2" space betwixt means 2" per digit, 4 x 2 = 8, you have the space. Of course you can, and then there's no issue.

Isn't that part of problem solving? If the issue causing the problem goes away, so does the problem?