Rules on building after bag day?

[cdizzle]

Hi guys,
What are the rules for building after bag day. For example, could we build and test a component after the bag day, and then reassemble it on our final robot at the competition?

[eedoga]

You have a withholding allowance of 30 pounds. You can keep 30 pounds of prefabricated non COTS items which you can then use at the competition. Some teams keep their electronics for a practice robot, other teams keep a subsystem which needs more work to be reliable. Be very careful though. You don't want to go over the weight limit, and you don't want to spend your first day building your robot instead of practicing with it.

Good luck.

[mdituri]

Originally Posted by cdizzle

Hi guys,
What are the rules for building after bag day. For example, could we build and test a component after the bag day, and then reassemble it on our final robot at the competition?

As long as your robot stays sealed in the bag and your component weighs less than the witholding allowance, you can build away. We pack a tape measure IN our bag in case we need emergency measurements. It worked great last year.

You would need to install on pit day of competition. You don't necessarily need to deconstruct your component if it weighs less than the allowance.

[Blackphantom91]

You can bring in 30 pounds of projects you have worked on.

[cdizzle]

Originally Posted by eedoga

You can keep 30 pounds of prefabricated non COTS items which you can then use at the competition.
Good luck.

Sorry, but what does "COTS" stand for?

[Domtech]

Originally Posted by cdizzle

Sorry, but what does "COTS" stand for?

Commercial off the shelf. So anything you buy pre-made and have not modified or assembled onto anything.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by mdituri

As long as your robot stays sealed in the bag and your component weighs less than the witholding allowance, you can build away. We pack a tape measure IN our bag in case we need emergency measurements. It worked great last year.

Emphasis mine.

What do you mean, "in case we need emergency measurements"? Once the robot is bagged, it's bagged. You're not supposed to design off of it, touch it, interact with it, probably not even look at it. After Ship Day, the robot ceases to exist in the physical world until your first regional.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by mdituri

As long as your robot stays sealed in the bag and your component weighs less than the witholding allowance, you can build away. We pack a tape measure IN our bag in case we need emergency measurements. It worked great last year.

You would need to install on pit day of competition. You don't necessarily need to deconstruct your component if it weighs less than the allowance.

Originally Posted by CalTran

Emphasis mine.

What do you mean, "in case we need emergency measurements"? Once the robot is bagged, it's bagged. You're not supposed to design off of it, touch it, interact with it, probably not even look at it. After Ship Day, the robot ceases to exist in the physical world until your first regional.

Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure.

But all kidding aside, I would read sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5 of the manual as they are the rules on this matter.

[Qbot2640]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure.

We've been thinking about just declaring our smallest kid on our BOM and making her part of the robot.

[Team3266Spencer]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure. .

Don't forget to pack them a sack lunch or two

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by cdizzle

Sorry, but what does "COTS" stand for?

The Glossary in the game manual has a good definition. See p 90.

[Mr V]

If your assembly weighs less than 30lbs and you don't need to bring in other fabricated items then bring it in assembled. If it weighs more than 30lbs then remove the COTS items like motors, transmissions, and wheels so that they are in their "as purchased" state and then only the fabricated items count as part of your 30lbs.

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure.

But all kidding aside, I would read sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5 of the manual as they are the rules on this matter.

Actually, after reading sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, I still don't have a clear understanding of what "hands-off" means in R18.

R18
Teams must stay “hands-off” their ROBOT during the following time periods:

• from Stop Build Day until their first event,
• during the period(s) between their events, and
• outside of Pit hours while attending events.

Additional time is allowed as follows:

• There are no restrictions on when software may be developed.
• On days a team is not attending an event, they may continue development of any items permitted per R21, but must do so without interfacing with the ROBOT.

Teams attending 2-day events may access their ROBOTS per the rules defined in the Administrative Manual, Section 5.6, ROBOT Access Period - for Teams Attending 2-Day Events.

Lacking an official definition of "hands-off", I would actually interpret this as meaning that the robot cannot be modified, adjusted, or tweaked while it is in the bag. Measuring would not violate that. Turning wrenches, drilling holes, and wiring components would violate that.

[Retired Starman]

Originally Posted by DELurker

Actually, after reading sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, I still don't have a clear understanding of what "hands-off" means in R18.



Lacking an official definition of "hands-off", I would actually interpret this as meaning that the robot cannot be modified, adjusted, or tweaked while it is in the bag. Measuring would not violate that. Turning wrenches, drilling holes, and wiring components would violate that.

Think of the old days when we put the robot in a box and Fed-X hauled it away. That's "Hands-Off" and that's the way you should consider it. Putting a tape measure in the bag, then manipulating it through the plastic cannot be construed as "Hands-Off", and , I feel, a violation of the spirit of the lock-up rules.

I guess anyone with the courage of their convictions could put a question in to the Q & A asking if it is legal to put a tape measure in the bag so the team could continue to take measurements so they can work on fabricated parts, but then some of us would probably rather not know.

Come on guys, you know what FIRST expects!

Dr. Bob
Chairman's Award is not about building the robot. Every team builds a robot.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by DELurker

Actually, after reading sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, I still don't have a clear understanding of what "hands-off" means in R18.

Consider this statement in 4.1 of the robot rules:

"When reading these rules, please use technical common sense (engineering thinking) rather than “lawyering” the interpretation and splitting hairs over the precise wording in an attempt to find loopholes. Try to understand the reasoning behind a rule."

Now consider what Bag & Tag is -- a less expensive replacement for shipping crates. I would think that using your CAD drawings for measurements after bagging is "hands off", but a measuring tape, even through plastic, needs hands.

Now...it was far simpler to box up that small team member when we still used crates.... And air holes were easier, too.