Rules on building after bag day?

[cgmv123]

You're supposed to treat the robot as if it's in a crate in a drayage facility like the old days of shipping. Obviously, you can't measure/inspect/interact with it if it's in a drayage facility.

[Bill_B]

That's the trouble with tradition. Only we older fogies remember it. Talk of drayage facilities and crates only confuses the newer guys. In the absence of specific instruction to not even look at the bagged robot, what should a fresh mind think of that? If FIRST wanted such stringent measures, they're capable of writing the rules to fit their desires. An opaque bag would go a long way to reinforce the behaviors being espoused here.

BTW our little, inside "guy" has a pillow and an iPad.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DELurker

Lacking an official definition of "hands-off", I would actually interpret this as meaning that the robot cannot be modified, adjusted, or tweaked while it is in the bag. Measuring would not violate that. Turning wrenches, drilling holes, and wiring components would violate that.

You should note R-18E, which stipulates that you can work on your withholding allowance without interfacing with the robot. I would interpret making a measurement as interfacing with the robot, particularly if the tape measure were in the bag. However, if you were to make measurements on parts you were planning to need measurements on before the robot went into the bag, note the measurements, and use the notes, you'd be just fine. Or if you built a jig to simulate that part of the robot, you'd probably be OK.

[DarthCoder]

So could we leave the cRIO and motor controllers and other electronics stuff out of the bag and work on image processing and programming?

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by DarthCoder

So could we leave the cRIO and motor controllers and other electronics stuff out of the bag and work on image processing and programming?

It depends on how you're doing on your withholding allowance. If you leave all of your wires hooked up, it's no longer in its COTS state, it has been modified to fit the function of your robot, if only slightly. You can still bring that sort of thing in, just make sure it (plus any other parts you bring) is under the 30 pound limit. The other option is taking it apart and wiring it up at competition, which could take away time from other things, like getting the rest of your robot ready and going to practice matches. There aren't restrictions against coding during this period, so do as much of that as you want.

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by EricH

You should note R-18E, which stipulates that you can work on your withholding allowance without interfacing with the robot. I would interpret making a measurement as interfacing with the robot, particularly if the tape measure were in the bag. However, if you were to make measurements on parts you were planning to need measurements on before the robot went into the bag, note the measurements, and use the notes, you'd be just fine. Or if you built a jig to simulate that part of the robot, you'd probably be OK.

I fully agree that the presumed intent is that there's an invisible fence around the robot. However, I think the GDC recognizes that it is honor-system. I also thought their choice of "interfacing" was interesting. Interfacing to me means putting parts into slots, accessing electronics, etc.

Overall, this section could use some clarity of intent for those of us who are post-drayage. Failing that, they should ship out black plastic bags rather than clear and force everyone to put 30 lbs of packing peanuts in it on top of the robot. Maybe packing peanuts could be the scoring pieces for 2015's game? A robot version of Tricky Tricky Trash Truck? (Who gets the reference?)

Yes, I understand that it's straying into rules-lawyering. No, we don't interact with the robot in any way once it is bagged (other than moving it out of the way because it is inevitably in the wrong spot for the night's planned activities). However, I'm not sure what you can do to prevent teams from interacting with the robot under the current system.

[Negative 9]

Do bumpers count as part of the 30 lb limit?

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by Negative 9

Do bumpers count as part of the 30 lb limit?

No.

R21

Teams may bring a maximum of 30 lbs of FABRICATED ITEMS to each event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT.

For Teams attending 2-Day Events, these FABRICATED ITEMS may be used during the Robot Access Period and/or brought to the Event, but the total weight may not exceed 30 lbs. FABRICATED ITEMS constructed during the Robot Access Period and bagged with the ROBOT are exempt from this limit.

The OPERATOR CONSOLE, BUMPERS, and any ROBOT battery assemblies (as described in R05-A) are exempt from this limit.

[toastnbacon]

Originally Posted by DarthCoder

So could we leave the cRIO and motor controllers and other electronics stuff out of the bag and work on image processing and programming?

If you're only working on programming, I would consider only leaving out the cRio and maybe the camera. You can build a new electronics board that won't go on the robot, therefore it wouldn't count towards your 30 lbs. The cRio and camera should be COTS. The only thing I wouldn't be sure about is the camera power cord, if it's cut. But at competition, you can put the cRio and camera back on and still have most of your 30 lbs to spare!

[President 1502]

How does having a tape measure in the bag help unless you rip the bag to use it?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by President 1502

How does having a tape measure in the bag help unless you rip the bag to use it?

The bag is flexible. They're manipulating the measuring tool through the bag, which is probably too literal an interpretation of "hands off" for most of us.