Team Update 2-19 and FRC Blog - Week 0 Observations and Stop Build Day

[cgmv123]

Human Actions
G35


The most recent FRC Blog describes the observations and lessons learned about ULTIMATE ASCENT game play during the two Week 0 scrimmages attended by FRC staff. One observation in particular is the basis for an edit, shown below, to Rule [G35].

During the creation and refinement of ULTIMATE ASCENT, we anticipated DISCS to occasionally and accidently be shot off the FIELD by ROBOTS and FEEDERS. However, we underestimated the intensity and degree to which FEEDERS would launch DISCS at the opposite ends of the FIELD. The aggressive throws plus the propensity for DISCS to leave the FIELD at high velocity caused a more distracting, and more notably hazardous, environment than anticipated for participants and equipment in and around the ARENA.

We strongly resist any significant rule changes after games are released, but this change is required to improve the safety for all FRC event participants. After discussing several options, we believe this particular change is the most effective and efficient way to mitigate risks. We apologize for our error and for having to make this game modification.

DISCS may be fed onto the FIELD only under the following circumstances:

A. during TELEOP through the FEEDER SLOTS for any DISCS and

B. during the last thirty (30) seconds of TELEOP over the FEEDER STATIONS for Red and Blue DISCS.

Violation: FOUL

root
Game Manual


As a reminder to Teams, a required Driver Station update was released on February 5. All Teams must update their Driver Station software to at least version 1.29.13.00.

Teams should not touch the GOALS at any point as this could impact the weight sensors used to score DISCS. Teams will be reminded of this during the Drivers’ Meeting, and the GOALS will be labeled with “Do not touch” stickers.

and

On Saturday, February 16th, FRC staff supported two ‘Week 0’ scrimmages, one in Connecticut and one in New Hampshire. These events were run with official fields and electronics that will be put on the road during competition season. FRC supports these events so we can test out our systems and see how the game plays with real FRC Teams. We carefully review what we see at these events, and work to improve our systems, and if necessary, the game, in preparation for competition.

Here’s what we learned about which we thought you’d like to hear:

• Field reset can be fairly quick, although it will require more coordination than in past years. Provided there’s a plan and organization about collecting and staging discs, it’s pretty manageable. Practice day will be a huge help in getting everyone on the same page and running smoothly.
• The belay system is effective at helping remove robots from the pyramids, but it will require much communication and collaboration between the team and the field staff to make sure it’s done safely and effectively (thanks to Team 811 for giving us several opportunities to try this out!).
• To mitigate cost and complexity and maximize access for testing and troubleshooting, the goals are designed to be fairly open. Because the FMS calculates the score based on the weight of the discs in the goals, it’s important that teams not touch any of the goals (over their head or the low goal). We’ll make sure this reminder is covered in the Drivers’ Meetings and we’ll be labeling the goals with “Do Not Touch” stickers.
• The netting on the sides of the field was helpful, but we still had significant issues with discs leaving the field during the match. During the last 30 seconds, when feeders are allowed to enter discs onto the field over the feeder stations, discs were going everywhere. This period was described on the forums as a ‘blizzard’ and it ‘raining’ discs. These are accurate characterizations. There are several issues with this, the most significant being safety. While discs thrown by robots for the most part stayed within the confines of the field, many discs thrown by the feeders did not. This is understandable – feeders are attempting a difficult shot at an awkward angle. This makes it exciting when a disc goes in a goal, but also increases the chance that a disc will leave the playing field and potentially strike someone. We noticed that during the last 30 seconds of the match, many folks closest to the field had their heads up to make sure they weren’t going to be hit by an errant disc, rather than enjoying the action on the field.

This last bullet is particularly compelling and, unfortunately, was serious enough that we felt the need to modify the game to rectify the situation (the official rule change is in today’s Team Update). As we hope we conveyed in the Team Update, we don’t take significant rules changes lightly as we know that teams carefully study the rules and invest hours or even days coming up with the best strategy they can within the framework of those rules.

We know that the robots we saw at these events were still works in progress, as teams still had three days before they needed to bag up. Even so, we were impressed with and excited by what we saw and can’t wait to see more. We’re so grateful to the event planning committees and the teams themselves for giving this opportunity to do a couple of dress rehearsals. We hope it was a fun and valuable experience for all participants.

Stop Build Day

In case you lost track of time, today is Stop Build Day! Robots must be bagged up by the stroke of midnight – your local time - tonight (when today, of course, turns in to tomorrow).



I’ll blog again soon.

Frank

Major change. One that will probably take away from the game, but I understand why they did it.

[dodar]

So, normal discs cannot be thrown at all?

Originally Posted by dodar

So, normal discs cannot be thrown at all?

That's what I get from it.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence

That's what I get from it.

This will greatly lessen the end game. Imagine if all those epic endgame shots hadnt happened last year; some of those moments were more amazing than some by the robots.

Oh, and this is my 1,592nd post!!!
Go Bionic Tigers!

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by dodar

So, normal discs cannot be thrown at all?

That appears to be the case.

[Chris is me]

Well, I guess I'm glad we didn't go with floor loading after all.

Sucks for any teams who designed around scoring a volley of frisbees in the end game. I'm never a fan of mid season rule changes - I'd rather they have made better netting, but at least it doesn't affect my team too much.

[Grim Tuesday]

Let the jimmies rustle.


This is the easily the most game changing change I have ever seen the GDC make late in the season. While I see the safety issue, it is absolutely irresponsible for them not to have noticed this earlier. While we didn't choose to use floor pickup, many teams made design decisions based on the throwing and pickup of white discs in this time period.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Well THAT's a game changer if I've ever seen one. So long frisbee blizzard and ultimate frisbee human players. Definitely a blow to ground-pickup robots everywhere. On the plus side, late game maneuverability just got a lot easier.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Well, I guess I'm glad we didn't go with floor loading after all.

Sucks for any teams who designed around scoring a volley of frisbees in the end game.

I guess the only thing those robots can pray for is that robots just drop artillery fire to their goal side so they can then pick up those. Just have teammates wildly fire shots just to get frisbees into play and down range.

[IndySam]

uhhhh, wow.

Real glad we sacrificed climbing for floor loading. Thanks GDC.

[PayneTrain]

I really don't know hot to put this in perspective. I don't feel good about it.

EDIT with perspective: To all ground loaders, don't dismay. There were a ton of frisbees on the ground before endgame at Week Zero events.
And besides, it's not like both alliances aren't going to have to deal with the rule change.

[AllenGregoryIV]

This is devastating. Our strategy was that fast floor pickup could even out not having a 30 point hang. This completely removes that idea. I understand safety concerns but why did my students just spend 6 weeks perfecting floor pickup and being able to drive around on a lot of discs. I'm just glad there seems to be a lot of full court shooters, that can replace the humans throwing.

More than anything this just killed team moral.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

This is devastating. Our strategy was that fast floor pickup could even out not having a 30 point hang. This completely removes that idea. I understand safety concerns but why did my students just spend 6 weeks perfecting floor pickup and being able to drive around on a lot of discs. I'm just glad there seems to be a lot of full court shooters, that can replace the humans throwing.

But you dont know the amount per regional. It could be 2 at one and 25 at another; or you could have 10 at a regional but all shoot 80% plus. I do feel bad for all the teams that highly focused on their ground game.

[Radical Pi]

B. during the last thirty (30) seconds of TELEOP over the FEEDER STATIONS for Red and Blue DISCS.

I don't see anything that prevents the humans from throwing the colored discs into the 3 point goal. New prediction: there will be more colored discs scored in the 3 point goal than in the pyramid goal.

[BJC]

This is very... irritating.

What's done is done though, no amount of complaining will change it back. Keep that in mind when posting in this thread.

Regards, Bryan