optimal alliance?

[johnr]

Once you get to championships,states and world, what will be the best alliance to put together? Can three robots even climb at the same time in any form(inside,outside,corner) and all get to top and dump. It looks a little crowded up there.

[Ty Tremblay]

While an all 30pt climber alliance would be an epic sight to see, the scoring potential is capped with that strategy. There are most certainly robots that will be capable of shooting frisbees and climbing for 30 points, but I doubt you'll find one that can beat a robot that sacrificed the 30pt climb for shooting.

Thus, my vision of the ultimate alliance would be:

- a great floor pickup robot with a high scoring autonomous.
- a full field shooter with a high shot rate and to feed the floor pickup robot.
- a dedicated climber/dumper that can play effective defense until it's time to climb.

[JohnChristensen]

I think Ty hit the ultimate alliance on the head right there. I believe that it would be possible to get three different robots all to the top, however I am not sure it will ever be possible to assemble an alliance capable of completing the task. Not at the champ level, I think a lot of regional events will be won by a great full court shooter, some form of second scoring robot (climber, floor pickup, or full court shooter), and a robot with strong drive train to play defense in front of the feeder station.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

- a great floor pickup robot with a high scoring autonomous.
- a full field shooter with a high shot rate and to feed the floor pickup robot.
- a dedicated climber/dumper that can play effective defense until it's time to climb.

Well, I don't need to make my post, ignoring climbing, this is exactly what I had in mind. Floor pickup bot can either score missed shots or get them under the pyramid/in a safety zone

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

- a great floor pickup robot with a high scoring autonomous.
- a full field shooter with a high shot rate and to feed the floor pickup robot.
- a dedicated climber/dumper that can play effective defense until it's time to climb.

This is the obvious flashy choice and I agree that this will probably be the style alliance that wins CMP. I think that this alliance could be beaten though. Try this one:

-2 small floor pick up bots with good AUTO
-1 tall defensive bot (can extend up to 84")

Going up against an alliance like the one mentioned above, the match would look something like this. We'll say the alliance I suggested is red and the one previously mentioned is blue. I'm assuming optimal scoring.

AUTO:
-Red scores all disks on their side and on the center line --> 75 points
-Blue scores all disks on their side, but not center line ---> 63 points

TELE:
-Red's tall bot immediately goes toward Blue feeder station and stalls the Blue full court shooter from getting there for ~15 sec.
-Blue's other 2 bots try to stall any blue bots from getting to the feeder for about the same time frame.
-Blue is forced to try and break through the block to get to the protected zone while Red uses the non-protected feeder zone to get disks, go down and score them.
-The tall bot stalls Blue's full court shooting enough between preventing them from getting to the feeder zone and staying in the way of the first few shots that Red's bots score 2 quick payloads of disks.
-Blue is forced to send the climber bot down to block the tall bot, Red now is going 2 on 1 for its scoring bots.
-Blue has about 1:30 to shoot its disks, it hits about 40/45 because it runs out of time.
-Red's bots each get in about 4 cycles (on top of the one that they already did) before 30 sec. remaining since they are going 2 on 1.
-Red and Blue each score about 40 disks
-Red:195 Blue:173

FINALE:
-Red HP throws colored disks down field while 'bots score remaining 5 disks.
-Red 'bots pick up colored disks and score them in pyramid goal.
-Red tall bot continues to try and block and stall the 30 pt. climber.
-Blue full court shooter and floor pick up each do 10 pt. hang.
-Blue climber scores 30 and dumps for 20.
-Red bots all hang for 10.
-Red scored 45 disk points (15 from the white ones; 30 from the colored)
-Red scored 30 hanging points.
-Blue scored 20 disk points (colored disk dumper)
-Blue scored 50 climbing points
-Red gets a total of 75 finale points
-Blue gets a total of 70 finale points

FINAL SCORE:
RED:270
BLUE:243

Obviously this is a perfect scenario, but I think that this is realistic enough to be used.

[JB]

Here is how I see the optimal alliance breakdown for an event like cmps. Number 1 seed and pick can be flip flopped.

Number 1 Seed - Full court shooter that can hang for 30 pts and put in 3-5 frisbee's in autonomous.

Number 1 Pick - Floor pick up robot to "Clean Up" during teleop hang for 10pts in the end game and score 5 frisbee's in autonomous.

Last Pick - A defensive robot that can do two of the following three tasks, block full court shooters, score somewhere in auto, or hang at the end for 30.

Just my thoughts.

[TheCrayButton]

I agree with everything said, but...

I think the REALISTIC alliance for regionals will be this...

Robot 1
3 disk AUTO
Frisbee floor pick up
Quick shooter
Shoots from the pyramid at the 3pt goal
Quick 10pt hang at end

Robot 2
3 disk AUTO
Feeder pickup system
Shoots from the pyramid at the 3pt goal
Quick 10pt hang at end

Robot 3
Defensive Robot
30pt hang

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

Red 'bots pick up colored disks and score them in pyramid goal.

I doubt that part would be a very viable strategy. It's far too difficult to get the discs to stay in from the floor. If you look at the way that goal is built, it's pretty much designed to be scored on from above. The walls are far too short to hold any fast-moving discs. It would be better to just keep shooting reliable, fast 3 pointers.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

I doubt that part would be a very viable strategy. It's far too difficult to get the discs to stay in from the floor. If you look at the way that goal is built, it's pretty much designed to be scored on from above. The walls are far too short to hold any fast-moving discs. It would be better to just keep shooting reliable, fast 3 pointers.

I agree that it is hard, but I expect teams by week 3 or 4 to have their shooters dialed in for the pyramid goals, they are worth too much to just ignore.

[Ben Martin]

Here is my dream alliance at the moment:
-A tall full-court shooter that may or may not be able to floor load and may or may not be able to hang
-A robot with high point potential from autonomous, floor loading, net points lost to opponents by being a wall and/or hanging and dumping such that it doesn't interfere with the activities of the full-court shooter
-The next-best robot based on point potential from autonomous, floor loading, net points lost to opponents by being a wall and/or hanging and dumping such that it doesn't interfere with the activities of the first two robots.

Point potential for being a wall robot will vary depending on the robots at a given regional/how tall an opposing full-court shooter is. If the full-court shooter is playing against a wall robot, one of the other two robots might need to play as a "spacer" or "protector" between the full-court shooter and the opposing robot.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by TheCrayButton

I agree with everything said, but...

I think the REALISTIC alliance for regionals will be this...

Robot 1
3 disk AUTO
Frisbee floor pick up
Quick shooter
Shoots from the pyramid at the 3pt goal
Quick 10pt hang at end

Robot 2
3 disk AUTO
Feeder pickup system
Shoots from the pyramid at the 3pt goal
Quick 10pt hang at end

Robot 3
Defensive Robot
30pt hang

Are these in order? A 30 point hanger being left as a second pick? Wow.

[TheMadCADer]

Another thing to consider is forgoing a dedicated defensive robot. With three feeder stations available and a wide goal and the open field this year, three robots could score discs on the same alliance. One of them could always defend a little if needed (or if you start running out of discs in some matches), but you'd have the ability to score a whole lot of discs. I could see this being more likely at Championships than at a regional, though.

Building off of that, I'd be interested in seeing if any teams play a style similar to 16 at Championships last year by picking up the opponents' discs and either feeding their alliance or scoring themselves. With limited discs, you could cut down the amount of points the other alliance can possibly score (and hold some of your own at the feeder station to keep them safe). I could see an alliance essentially choking out others that aren't accurate enough to prevent this from happening. It would also shut down robots that shoot discs downfield for their partners to pick up.

[lorem3k]

1. Short (<30 inches tall) robot that can drive under the pyramid for easy maneuverability, with floor pickup, a 3-point shooter, and a hanger/climber.
2. Taller robot that can take full-court shots, with a 10-point hanger.
3. 50-point climb&dump robot that can also dump 1-point frisbees.

[Bstep]

As cool/effective as the full court shooter is, the height restriction for the shooting robot is significantly more severe than that of a defending robot. On top of that, the shooting angle to the high goal is very shallow. This means that the defending robot can stay a safe distance from the full court shooter and still block every shot.

[lemiant]

Only at IRI could 3 robots that consistently perform shooting or 50 point climbing end up on an alliance. I would say the best regional alliance would be:

1. Tall full court shooter
2. Accurate short 3 point shooter with good auto and floor pick up (possibly 30 point climb)
3. Tough defensive robot that can be retrofit with a 84" sail (or that has an extending sail.)

Point totals for that alliance could realistically reach 148. Coincidentally I don't think anyone will score more than 150 points until IRI.