Prelim Photon Cannon Test

[DavisC]

I would like to also say that I would recommend that you check and make sure that those lights are not annoying. And remember to think of it from the other team's point of view.

Also, if teams start using these more often without close consideration of blinding factors. We may end up seeing some more light specific rules next year (which could also hurt teams using the lights for cameras).

If those lights are up close to the window and aimed up from a lower bot, I would not want a strong flashlight pointed towards my eyes (I know how blinding those newer ones can).

[Samwaldo]

This year we are using auto tracking. We are playing with ring lights and at the moment are using 3 green LED ring lights. All I can say is WOW! We could be chosen in eliminations just cuz the light is so bright it will blind the opponents and slow them down.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Samwaldo

This year we are using auto tracking. We are playing with ring lights and at the moment are using 3 green LED ring lights. All I can say is WOW! We could be chosen in eliminations just cuz the light is so bright it will blind the opponents and slow them down.

I know you're joking but be careful of <R08>

R08
ROBOT parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the operation of other ROBOTS.


Examples of items that will violate R08 include (but are not limited to):

A. Shields, curtains, or any other devices or materials designed or used to obstruct or limit the vision of any drivers and/or coaches and/or interfere with their ability to safely control their ROBOT

[mikegrundvig]

To get bright lights with no chance of distracting other drivers as well as massively reducing the likelihood of swamping from other light sources teams should use optical bandpass filters.

I'm sure other teams have done this before but I've not seen it. We did it last year with our vision system that worked great - too bad the shooter didn't work well enough to make it effective in the end. We used high wattage LEDs with peak output in the IR range that matches the bandpass filter built into the Kinect. You can do the same thing with a filter purchased from Edmund Optics or some other supply house.

This worked incredibly well for our vision system. We'd get pitch black images with the retroreflective tape glowing bright white. Basically ideal conditions for computer vision. If even worked with sunlight streaming in the windows at the camera and it produced no visible light to distract drivers.

-Mike

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Undertones

During the photon cannon preliminary tests for 4334, I noticed that even with the light pointed considerably high above one's head, the source of light still makes for a very bright and potentially very distracting element. Especially with extremely high powered light sources such as this one. As a driver, this is something that I am seriously worried about.

Seconded.

I know some of last year's high powered lights were verrrry intense and distracting when I was standing just behind and to the right of a driver's station during a match in St. Louis.

If you are not permitted to drape a sheet over a driver station to block the view of an opposing driver, why is it ok to blind them with a high powered flashlight?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

If you are not permitted to drape a sheet over a driver station to block the view of an opposing driver, why is it ok to blind them with a high powered flashlight?

We're planning on this; if ours sees action, we'll work to keep it in check and Less Obnoxious.

[fox46]

Back in 2001 I participated in a spinoff of FIRST called "Canada First" (As our FIRST had yet to come to Canada). The competition that year involved firing squash balls at targets. Lasers were prohibited so we used a 35W household halogen 12V pot light in a cardboard tube with a magnifying glass mounted inside the tube at the appropriate focal length to project a perfect "spot" on the targets. We inserted a piece of aluminum with a + slot machined in it and the result was a perfect crisp projection of a crosshairs on the targets. It worked magnificently well.

This being said, that competition, all the drivers were oriented to face the same direction and the targets were opaque so nobody was exposed to any aiming lights. I must say that if I felt it was impeding my drive team's ability to compete I would not have any bad feelings about launching a complaint against the offending device. FIRST has given you some incredible tools at your disposal (CRIO and Axis Camera). You should be endeavoring to use them and learn as much about the technology as possible.

[toastnbacon]

I wholeheartedly agree with those saying it could get distracting. I remember being surprised when I saw them last year, I really expected the idea to be shut down. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea, but I'm not sure if it's really in the spirit of gracious professionalism.

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by Billfred

We may yet put it on a Spike more out of current draw concern than blinding the other side

As far as turning the light on and off with a Spike (or just running it through a Spike), any thoughts on the legality per the wording of R52 and Table 4-4? A flashlight doesn't appear to be a "Legal Power Regulating Device Use" since it isn't listed as an allowable load on the Spike.

[Alan Anderson]

I don't think there are any specific restrictions against using a Spike in a custom circuit.

[billbo911]

2073 will be using 3 concentrically mounted "UV" (black light) LED rings from SuperBrightLEDs.com

These are advertised to emit 400nm light. This is at the top end of the "Near UV" spectrum. The combined output of these three rings is 57,600mcd.

This sounds like a lot, but when viewed with the human eye, it is not uncomfortable at all. The wavelength is not detrimental to our eyes. On the other hand, the camera on the robot sees this light quite well.

My Canon 30D with barely picks up the light from the rings, as seen below. But, the Axis 601 sees it reflected from the target really well!

[Bryscus]

Originally Posted by mikegrundvig

This worked incredibly well for our vision system. We'd get pitch black images with the retroreflective tape glowing bright white. Basically ideal conditions for computer vision. If even worked with sunlight streaming in the windows at the camera and it produced no visible light to distract drivers.

-Mike

This is a very interesting idea and I'm glad it worked well. That being said, we had absolutely no issues tracking a target last year in all lighting conditions (inside fluorescent, tungsten, outside cloudy, sunny, etc.). The trick was stated in the vision white paper last year. It requires overexposing the camera with a bright light source and then setting the camera to hold BOTH the white balance and exposure settings. Then set up a threshold based on Hue, Saturation and Luminance and tweak it. I took sample images at all events and ran them through the NI Vision Assistant as well and never had to change the threshold values.

- Bryce

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I don't think there are any specific restrictions against using a Spike in a custom circuit.

I don't see custom circuits listed in R52 either Alan. If you have a rule that explicitly lists what loads the different power regulating devices (speed controllers and relays) are allowed to regulate, I'd say that's a restriction.