Bag & tag mistake

[safiq10]

Another team in the city is quitting joining the regional event cause they had a miscommunication on the rules. Apparently they wont be competing due to their mentor thought your allowed to continue to assemble and not construct after stop build day. So they are quitting due to the fact that they broke a rule. I was just wondering what your guys opinion are on this topic. Should they still compete or just not compete this year.

[mrnoble]

We made a similar error several years ago, misreading the rules regarding bag and tag in Michigan (I think). We actually spent about 6 hours working on the actual robot post BnT. When we brought it to the competition, we worked it out with the judges, and we were assessed a time penalty consistent with the amount of time we had spent on the robot outside of the allowed time. We just left it bagged in the pit until the time was up. It of course messed us up, but we still got to compete. Have them contact the regional event staff to have a conversation with the judges. FIRST is all about fairness, but it's also all about opportunity and support. I think they might find some help if they are straightforward with the judges about their situation.

[JohnSchneider]

Out of curiosity what is the difference between 'assemble' and 'construct'?

[safiq10]

Assemble means to put it together while constructs mean to make a new piece

[connor.worley]

It's an unfortunate mistake, but it would be more unfortunate to bar students from the experience over it. Contact FIRST for an absolute ruling.

[jds2001]

Did they or did they not BnT their robot at midnight? If what they were doing would fall within the withholding allowance (30lbs of fabricated parts), I don't see a problem. Of course, if they just didn't bag the robot, then that's another issue and I'd contact the event judges. I don't think FIRST would totally disqualify the team, the time penalty seems fairer and better in that situation.

[Nuttyman54]

Before making any decisions, they should contact their regional director and FIRST. For Waco, I think the regional director is Patrick Felty (pfelty@usfirst.org). FIRST should be contacted at frcteams@usfirst.org.

I would also recommend they bag and tag their robot immediately. As mentioned above, there may be something that can be worked out.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by safiq10

Another team in the city is quitting joining the regional event cause they had a miscommunication on the rules. Apparently they wont be competing due to their mentor thought your allowed to continue to assemble and not construct after stop build day. So they are quitting due to the fact that they broke a rule.

They need to speak to their regional director immediately. Since the manual doesn't include procedures for this contingency, FIRST needs to be made aware, so that it can devise a fair resolution, advise the officials at the event how to handle the situation, and take equivalent steps elsewhere if it happens again.

Originally Posted by safiq10

Should they still compete or just not compete this year.

If the things that were illegally assembled can be restored to the state they were in at the end of the build period, I don't see any reason to withdraw. After all, they're already going to the trouble of doing penance for their sins—I don't think they're likely to abuse FIRST's (presumed) magnanimity.

Note that the ruling should also be announced to the other teams. Given that they may already know the team was in violation, they need to be made aware that the violation was corrected to FIRST's satisfaction. (Failing to do this could diminish their confidence in the administration of the rules.)

[Jetweb]

I see absolutely no reason they shouldn't be able to compete because of a simple mistake such as this. They should stop working on there robot immediately and worst case the judges or FIRST may asses a time penalty or ask them to dissemble any parts they put together after stop build day and reassemble them at the event, which with other teams help would be more than possible for any robot. Please have the team contact FIRST HQ or there regional director about there situation and im sure they will be able to find a solution that allows them to still compete.

[Nuttyman54]

It's also worth mentioning that, regardless of what happens with the FIRST ruling, teams have built robots entirely from scratch at a competition before. (Some even in the days before the kitbot). This has happened primarily due to shipping issues, but in the unlikely event that the official ruling on the situation does not allow them to bring their robot to the event in any form, it doesn't necessarily preclude them from competing.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

The team must call FIRST HQ as soon as possible. None of us want to see a team drop out over a mistake but HQ must be made aware of the exact details. I can't promise anything but there may be an alternative that would allow them to still compete. Make the call tomorrow, 9AM eastern time.

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by safiq10

Another team in the city is quitting joining the regional event cause they had a miscommunication on the rules. Apparently they wont be competing due to their mentor thought your allowed to continue to assemble and not construct after stop build day. So they are quitting due to the fact that they broke a rule. I was just wondering what your guys opinion are on this topic. Should they still compete or just not compete this year.

Absolutely they should compete. Mistakes can be fixed. What has been done in error can be repaired in contrition. Etc. Etc.

An honest error should not prevent all of their hard work up until Bag Day from being on display. The stuff between then and now is (of course) negotiable.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by connor.worley

It's an unfortunate mistake, but it would be more unfortunate to bar students from the experience over it. Contact FIRST for an absolute ruling.

Please, please contact FIRST. They can work something out. It's about the experience, and it was a mistake. Don't ruin a whole season.

[Kevin Sevcik]

What regional is the team going to? Waco's smack in the middle of Texas, so any team near you could've ended up at Lone Star, Dallas, or Alamo. I ask because I know the Regional Director for Lone Star, and she's a pretty strong advocate for rookies. If the team is going to Lone Star and gets in touch with her, I'm certain she'll work something out so they can compete.

[team4384]

Kudos to mentors and team for being responsible for their mistake. I am proud and happy to see this many positive responses. Yes, they need to contact regional director and see.

Honesty and Integrity is the key to success. We are sophomore team this season, so far at least half a dozen times I have explained to adults (of course they are all new to FRC) that we don't bag-n-tag in presence of a FIRST monitor, its done in a good faith. If I don't teach my team to be honest, I am a failure!