Real-Time Scoring Not Working?

[George1902]

Originally Posted by Robotmmm

Seems like even when it is corrected that it is still not right.

This is the main problem. Inaccurate real-time scores are worse than none at all, imo. It erodes people's confidence in the final scores.

Folks, trust that the final score is accurate. Even if the crew has to count the discs by hand, they'll be sure to get it right.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by George1902

Folks, trust that the final score is accurate. Even if the crew has to count the discs by hand, they'll be sure to get it right.

Call me cynical if you like, but I've been around this game long enough to know that I can't just trust that it will be right.

I've seen dozens of scoring errors over the years that affected the outcome of the match, and upon discovery, the teams were basically told "Oh well, crummy luck."

Never mind the hundreds of scoring errors that didn't affect the outcome of the match that I've seen.

I frequently hear people hide behind GP, as if expecting the event to be run in accordance with the rules and corrected accordingly when mistakes are made is too much to expect of volunteers. I wholeheartedly disagree. Event volunteers should be expected to be able to officiate the games in full compliance with the game manual. Period. Anything less is unprofessional.

[Mongai]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I've seen dozens of scoring errors over the years that affected the outcome of the match, and upon discovery, the teams were basically told "Oh well, crummy luck."

When I read this, I think of Lunacy.

[JChang]

Originally Posted by Car Nack

Car Nack Predicts 13-4

Unfortunately the automatic Frisbee counter will be unreliable and require the manual counting of Frisbees for many matches.

Car Nack has spoken.

The Great Car Nack is right again.

[GaryVoshol]

The "snapshot" is virtual - there are humans that are counting and writing down the number of discs scored in autonomous. All the discs are counted as the goal bins are emptied at the end of the match.

I have seen scores "flickering"; presumably as the sensor picks up a weight that's nearly halfway between the weight of two discs and it's trying to figure out which discrete value to display.

One time the big screen showed a score of 404 until the FTA jostled the goal bin and the sensor went back on.

At Traverse City they had to replace the sensors or re-calibrate them 3 or 4 times today.

I don't believe there is a huge point swing once the manual count has been done. We had one match where the field crew counted correctly, but the numbers were entered into FMS for the wrong alliances - red and blue reversed. When that was pointed out several matches later, the scores were corrected.

It is unfortunate that the automated scoring doesn't work, and it does slow things down a little because it takes longer for field reset and scoring. But to FIRST's credit, they did admit that the system didn't work and came up with the manual backup. They didn't try to claim that "The sensors are always right."

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

It is unfortunate that the automated scoring doesn't work

Good choice of words Gary: Unfortunate. I am sure everyone had hoped it would work, but that's just not how it works in the real world.

I can't do better; anyone who can should do so before the end of the season and give one to FIRST for their use. Hey, maybe you'll end up on the GDC...

[Robotmmm]

Problem to me seems to be the differentiation between auton and teleop points. Clearly just counting the ofrisbees in the goal at the end of the match does not tell you how many were scored in each category.

Palmetto score boards continuously posted auton points when no robots shot a single frisbee. What accounts for this? There should have been nothing to trigger a score.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

It is unfortunate that the automated scoring doesn't work, and it does slow things down a little because it takes longer for field reset and scoring. But to FIRST's credit, they did admit that the system didn't work and came up with the manual backup. They didn't try to claim that "The sensors are always right."

At FLR, they put out a request early this week for extra volunteers (I would presume to fill the scoring roles. Our FTA said that FIRST realized the issue at the week 0 events, and it was in the plans for the events for this week to provide manual backup as Gary mentioned. The Field Crew at FLR was AMAZING, they were tirelessly and insanely counting and recounting frisbees... stacks and bins and everything, and doing it all often faster than the robots could be setup. Scoring tables were set up when we got there today, and at least 3 volunteers staffed each table at all times. Its a lot more work than we all hoped perhaps, but the volunteers have done a phenomenal job keeping up with it and keeping the day moving along very quickly.

[Calvin Hartley]

On the subject of score flickering, part of it is (most likely) the discs still moving about inside the goal immediatly after landing inside the goal. From what I could tell today, the score slickering seemed to calm down as the discs 'calmed down' inside the box. Just my thoughts.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by joelg236

Yup...

Hey maybe we're just that good?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Hey maybe we're just that good?

Depends who you ask.

[Akash Rastogi]

The amount of variance in scores in the transition between auton and tele-op at Palmetto is stupid. This is getting ridiculous in most matches down there.

[mom1155]

What is Manchester recommending to avoid these issues week 2?

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by mom1155

What is Manchester recommending to avoid these issues week 2?

I'm sure they will be working on it and a ruling will come out later this week. I don't think they would already have a fix.

Does anyone else seem to notice a large improvement in scoring today?
A lot of the matches at FLR are being scored correctly by the automatic system.

[Ivan Malik]

The sensors for real time scoring are insanely sensitive. Field reset was instructed to be as gentle as possible when emptying the goals at kettering so that the calibration wouldn't be thrown off. A feat in itself if you have the chance to see the rain of frisbees on the volunteer emptying them. A few teams' shooters were so violent that just the force of the discs hitting the back of the goal, this is after hitting the chains, threw off the weight sensors. I'm really shocked that FIRST didn't put a speed limit on discs in the rules like 06. It would be a good idea for many teams to tune their shooters down for simply field safety, let alone real time scoring.

There are multiple people counting discs entering the goals both during auton and during the teleop at kettering. From what I could see someone checks the auton scoring during the slight lull between aton and teleop to double check their figures, same with after the match. While inaccurate real-time scoring is disappointing, the FTA's, field crew, refs and everyone down at the field are trying to cover every possible way to make sure that the final score entered in for ranking is the right score. They should deserve a medal, in my opinion, this game is insane for them. One-hundred some odd game pieces to track, while dodging frisbees, making calls through a net, with a rather limited supply of extra discs. It is a miracle that matches don't take 10-15 mins to reset, and score.