What we learned from week 1

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by MikeE

I don't think anyone objects to reinspection for major modification such as adding a mechanism (active or passive) per rule T11, but it is impractical to reinspect for every modification. If you follow the letter rather than the spirit of the rules, which of these would *not* require a reinspection?

1. Filing down a corner to give better clearance between parts
2. Replacing a nut with a locknut
3. replacing a faulty motor
4. ziptie several wires together
5. updating a timeout in the code
6. adding an accelerometer sensor

T10, but technically, yes, that's true. I think certain things, from a practicality standpoint, can be ignored. IMHO, it only elicits a full reinspection after a visible physical change.

Originally Posted by T10

If a ROBOT is modified after it has passed Inspection, other than modifications described in T8, that ROBOT must be re-Inspected.

Originally Posted by T10 Blue Box

If an observation is made that another Team’s ROBOT may be in violation of the ROBOT rules, please approach FIRST officials to review the matter in question. This is an area where Gracious ProfessionalismTM is very important.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MikeE

I don't think anyone objects to reinspection for major modification such as adding a mechanism (active or passive) per rule T11, but it is impractical to reinspect for every modification. If you follow the letter rather than the spirit of the rules, which of these would *not* require a reinspection?

1. Filing down a corner to give better clearance between parts
2. Replacing a nut with a locknut
3. replacing a faulty motor
4. ziptie several wires together
5. updating a timeout in the code
6. adding an accelerometer sensor

1 would not. You are removing material, not adding it.
2 could. A large nut could cause a weight limit breakage. However, I don't think this would necessarily be checked or caught.
3 is a repair, not a modification. No reinspection necessary--unless you used a different motor type.
4: see 2.
5 is a code change. No reinspection necessary. Software is not inspected, though versions are checked to make sure they are the proper ones.
6 would be a reinspection, albeit a quick one. Added wire needs to meet the rules, added sensor needs weight check. That would be a "Hey, we added _this_ to the robot, are we A-OK still?" check--5 minutes and out to the field.

Under most situations, the only one that would actually be inspected would be #6, if a robot was going to elims (the inspectors will ask if there are any changes at that point).

[kmusa]

Originally Posted by NotaJoke

At the Traverse City district event, there was a human player who was extremely consistent, making around 4/6 of the disks each time. Any well trained and well practiced human player could do the same... Until the disks start going into the pyramid goals regularly! Also, I assume human players like him/her were another reason for the rule change.

Actually, I think that it was the human players that weren't making at least 66% of their shots that caused the rule change.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Amen to that. 1126's suddenly improved drivetrain was quite the shocker, and so very, very well played. (Pardon me while I sob uncontrollably for a few minutes).

I do have to say, though, that 48's driver needs an award for the ballsiest defense I've ever seen in an FRC match ever--totally epic driving, that was!

Care to explain what 1126 did? Also does any one have video of 48's defense? I would love to see it.

[Libby K]

I've only skimmed the thread, so here's my observations - sorry if they're repeats.

Automated weight-scoring: Awkward when it's broken. Sometimes we were losing 582-14. However, when they take the score down off the big screen, the countdown timer goes too, since it's all the same graphic. It'd be helpful to change that, since some coaches look there instead of the ones on the alliance wall. (Also, at GSR the timer on the driver's station was occasionally not working. It was weird.)

Frisbee Blizzard: Much better than Week 0, but my official count was Near Misses- 10, Frisbees-to-the-face- 1. Most of those were white discs during robot-only times. Only a few were out of control HPs. Keep in mind, I was up taking pictures for my teams, so I was by the field a lot. But still, it gets crazy.

Weird Ref Happenings: 229 got bumped in the last few seconds of the match as we were on the 10-point hang, and the other 'bot was touching us when the buzzer sounded. Ref called for a reset before we could ask, but we were NOT awarded the climb-impedance-foul-points. The answer upon challenging was "Oh, sorry, we reset too quickly, I didn't see it." Sorry, Head Ref whose name I don't know, but that's all on you. If you're a ref, PLEASE look at the field at rest before you signal the all-clear.

Week one was a whole lot of fun for me. Looking forward to next week!

[Wayne TenBrink]

What is the likliehood that the GDC exercises their option to alter the scoring for pyramid by up to 10 points per level at the Championship? (Ref: Blue box under Section 3.1.5.2 of the manual)

If they plan to do it, I hope they let us know well in advance.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Care to explain what 1126 did? Also does any one have video of 48's defense? I would love to see it.

1126 made a robot that was small enough to go under the pyramid but had an amazing drivetrain. The lurked under theirs and when their opponents (two slot loaders) came to get discs, they would pop out and waylay them like crazy. At one point I was worried that they were going to get a blockading the gameflow penalty when their alliance partner was lined up to shoot and the entire field was blocked.

As for 48's defense, I don't know if there is any FLR match footage yet but if I remember correctly, they scooted out from auto and pushed 1559 out from under they pyramid before they could begin their climb. It was crazy.


From what I've watched at the regional, the field is incredibly cramped around the pyramid and feeder stations. Defense is incredibly viable though somewhat contradictory - you want to be tall enough to block shots but short to go under the pyramid. If someone can do both and be pushy and fast, they are the ultimate third round pick.

Two shooters one defender is a better alliance than three shooters since the field gets clogged with people going from feeder station to goals and the scoring positions are somewhat limited. Uncoordinated alliances almost end up playing defense on themselves when one robot is driving from the feeder slot to the goals and another is going from goals to feeder slot. I think the ultimate alliance would be one full court shooter, one ground pickup shooter, and one underpyramid defender. Any shots missed by the full court shooter could then be picked up by the ground pickup and scored, as they are now on the right side of the field. However, at least at FLR, there is very little in the way of ground pickup. And when I say very little, I mean none. It looked like 48 and 1507 both had mechanisms but didn't use them, instead opting for feeder station.

A word of warning for anyone putting on lunchtime shot blockers: 578 put one on and their driver, not used to playing with a tall robot got a red card for contacting a robot climbing.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the GDC change points to 10-30-40 or even 0-30-40. Climbing seems to be under powered in relation to how difficult a task it was.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by EricH

Under most situations, the only one that would actually be inspected would be #6, if a robot was going to elims (the inspectors will ask if there are any changes at that point).

If any of the other caused a significant change from your last recorded weight (remember, we re-weigh before elims) you'd also potentially get questioned about 1, 2, and 4. Assuming 50 locknuts or zip ties, or a very large "corner".

Bottom line...regardless of what you're changing it's safer & a lot quicker to pop over to the inspection table on Thursday afternoon to say "we're doing this; do you want to take a look?" If you don't, what could have taken 2 minutes when you have lots of time (and remember what you did) turns into 20 minutes when *everyone's* getting re-weighed & changes discussed. And when you'd rather be prepping for that important first quarterfinal.

[Steven Donow]

I noticed this on the FLR stream and looking at the layout for TCNJ, but what is the purpose of the LCD TVs next to the driver stations?

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

I noticed this on the FLR stream and looking at the layout for TCNJ, but what is the purpose of the LCD TVs next to the driver stations?

Protocol states that you should place the screen on the same or opposite side of the scoring table along the horizontal side of the field so both alliances can see it. At FLR, the venue layout has seating on both sides so the screen is placed on the vertical end of the field, only one alliance can see the realtime score and match time left. The screen is placed next to the drivers on the opposite side of the field so they are not disadvantaged by not knowing the realtime score and time.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by jwallace15

7. Big sheets of lexan make for great noisemakers in the stands.

No, not "great", but "Obnoxious". I can understand high school kids being oblivious to the hearing damage - I was a kid once, too - but please, please have some respect for the rest of the crowd. If you can't be loud with your voice, then you can't be loud. Capisce?

Originally Posted by MikeE

which of these would *not* require a reinspection?

1. ziptie several wires together

In 2012, that would have put up over the weight limit.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Amen to that. 1126's suddenly improved drivetrain was quite the shocker, and so very, very well played. (Pardon me while I sob uncontrollably for a few minutes).

I do have to say, though, that 48's driver needs an award for the ballsiest defense I've ever seen in an FRC match ever--totally epic driving, that was!

I hope someone has videos of those matches. :-)

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by jwallace15

7. Big sheets of lexan make for great noisemakers in the stands.

Please read:

Originally Posted by FRC Manual

4.13.3 Competition Spirit
We ask that you bring attention to your team in ways that are in good taste and in the spirit of the competition. Please refrain from the following:

• Using noisemakers;
• Using objects that can damage bleachers or floors;
• Wearing inappropriate clothing; and/or
• Taping or affixing items or papers to walls, bleachers, floors or other site areas.

Please make sure your team Pit and surrounding area is clean when you leave the site.

I really wish these rules were better enforced.

I usually bring and wear earplugs to competitions, because usually its so loud I cannot have a conversation with the person next to me in the stands without yelling. It's bad when you have to text back and forth to communicate without losing your voice in ten minutes.

[Chris is me]

Line defense is the easiest way to play penalty-free defense on arbitrary opposition.

Cycle time is what separates the good from the great.

A pure hanger that doesn't move isn't nearly as valuable as people expected. A moving drive base, especially if you're under 30, makes you far more useful to an alliance since you can play defense.

Defense is more about top speed than pushing power this year.

There better be a good reason if you're more than 30 inches tall.

[smistthegreat]

If you're a dedicated hanger and hang from the front, back, or inside of the pyramid, you'll probably be in the way of any back of the pyramid shooters on your alliance.