What we learned from week 1

[Jared Russell]

G30 is called very inconsistently.

In eliminations, a lot of matches turned into 6 robot scrums at midfield, with each side trying to get back to their feeder stations with 1 or 2 bots while the other(s) played D.

The lower rung of the pyramid is a bit lower than everyone expected.

Being 1/32" of an inch off the ground is as good as being 27" off the ground.

The pyramid is FAR less rigid than I expected. Anyone attempting a 30 point climb, especially on the corner, better hold on tight.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by Jared341

G30 is called very inconsistently.

This. Had to exit in the quarterfinals because G30 wasn't called at all. We also had some bad planning and poor strategy on our part, and I don't think we would've gotten past semis, but I was absolutely furious when we lost our last match and the 3 infractions of G30 weren't counted, but one accidental instance of G36 was counted.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Jared341

G30 is called very inconsistently.

For anyone competing in the coming weeks and planning on using the pyramid as a protected area, I suggest you keep the following handy:

Originally Posted by G30

Regardless of who initiates the contact, a ROBOT may not contact an opponent ROBOT

contacting its PYRAMID or
touching the carpet in its LOADING ZONE.


Violation: FOUL. If purposeful or consequential, TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent's CLIMB is affected, each affected opponent ROBOT will be awarded points for a successful Level 3 CLIMB.

Originally Posted by Q&A Q138

Q138

Q. G30 has different penalties if the act is consequential or purposeful. Please define 'Consequential' and 'purposeful' with respect to violations of G30 in the LOADING ZONE.

A. Consequential means the action has an effect on the outcome of the MATCH. Purposeful means the action was deemed intentional.

Originally Posted by Q&A Q145

Q145

Q. Does this rule also apply to robots that are contacting the pyramid while shooting? That is to say, can a robot contact its pyramid to aim and shoot at its goals and consider this a "safe zone"? Or is this rule only active when climbing the pyramid?

A. [G30] applies regardless of what the ROBOT is doing, so long as it is contacting its PYRAMID.

I think it's very clear to anyone that reads G30, Q138 and Q145 that intentional contact between a robot touching it's pyramid or loading station and a defender/opponent is prohibited and the opponent will be penalized. With that being said, if you are shooting, and that contact causes one of your shots to miss, a technical foul should be assessed as the match score has now been changed (effect on the outcome of the match).

That being said, there was a certain degree of 'right of way' protection that was assumed to have been created by G30 - that being if you're touching/nearly touching the pyramid and attempting to play the game (score) you would more or less be allowed to do what was required to continue playing - which we were told was not the case. Whether or not this will be called uniformly across all events has yet to be seen...

I guess the TLDR here is to go over G30 in detail with the head ref if it's relevant to your strategy, whether it be climbing or shooting, and make sure that if you're touching the pyramid, that it's CLEARLY visible from all/most angles on the field. A few teams had little flags and fiberglass sticks that would deform when they were in contact which seemed to make things a bit easier.

[Spatel7793]

Well after 1422 caught fire, I learned that Team 639 had the right idea in putting a smoke detector on their robot.

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by Jared341

The pyramid is FAR less rigid than I expected. Anyone attempting a 30 point climb, especially on the corner, better hold on tight.

It was also noticeable how the practice pyramid rigidity deteriotated as the regional progressed. By the end of qualifications it was significantly looser than the field pyramids. I suspect that absent some upgrades the field pyramids will become interestingly dynamic by Week 6 competitions.

[Daniel Brim]

Originally Posted by Jared341

The lower rung of the pyramid is a bit lower than everyone expected.

Do you have a specific measurement for the height of the first bar? Or at least a ballpark value?

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brim

Do you have a specific measurement for the height of the first bar? Or at least a ballpark value?

We measured ~28 1/4" from the floor to the bottom of the first bar (+/- 1/4" depending on which rung and which pyramid).

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Jared341

We measured ~28 1/4" from the floor to the bottom of the first bar (+/- 1/4" depending on which rung and which pyramid).

How are they that far out of spec? That is completely unacceptable.

[TD78]

Originally Posted by Jared341

We measured ~28 1/4" from the floor to the bottom of the first bar (+/- 1/4" depending on which rung and which pyramid).

We were going with 29-1/4" that we measured at NH.

We believe it was from the 1/2" plywood base + carpet lining + carpet underneath the pyramid. So the 30" from the actual floor the bots drive around on is 30"...but then you need to take into account the 3/4" of base underneath the pyramid.

The practice field didn't have the plywood base, so it threw my team all off until late Friday afternoon. Our hanger still didn't work as well as we would have hoped...but we didn't expect that curveball.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by TD78

The practice field didn't have the plywood base, so it threw my team all off until late Friday afternoon. Our hanger still didn't work as well as we would have hoped...but we didn't expect that curveball.

For us, the measured difference between an arbitrary rung on the practice field and competition field was more than 1 inch.

Measuring the field and adjust-ability in your hanging mechanism are both mandatory this year, I'm afraid.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by TD78

We were going with 29-1/4" that we measured at NH.

We believe it was from the 1/2" plywood base + carpet lining + carpet underneath the pyramid. So the 30" from the actual floor the bots drive around on is 30"...but then you need to take into account the 3/4" of base underneath the pyramid.

The practice field didn't have the plywood base, so it threw my team all off until late Friday afternoon. Our hanger still didn't work as well as we would have hoped...but we didn't expect that curveball.

The problem is that the prints, the manual, and the official field tour videos, show the 30 inches(center) from the floor to be from where the pyramid connects to the floor which is technically on top of the .5in steel, or in the case of districts plywood. So if we follow that correctly when measured from the floor and not the top of the base plate the 1st rung should be 30.5 in(center) or 29.75(bottom) from the floor. So the 28.25" that Jared measured is out of spec by 1.25 inches if measured from the floor or .75 inches if measured to the base plate. I would hope that FIRST wouldn't have put the tolerance of the pyramids in the "the field can be out of spec by 4 inches" specification as the pyramid is such an integral part of the game that it would be a slap in the face to all the teams who designed climbers or robots they thought were short enough to go under the bar but might not be able to at every competition they go to.

[TD78]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

The problem is that the prints, the manual, and the official field tour videos, show the 30 inches(center) from the floor to be from where the pyramid connects to the floor which is technically on top of the .5in steel, or in the case of districts plywood. So if we follow that correctly when measured from the floor and not the top of the base plate the 1st rung should be 30.5 in(center) or 29.75(bottom) from the floor. So the 28.25" that Jared measured is out of spec by 1.25 inches if measured from the floor or .75 inches if measured to the base plate. I would hope that FIRST wouldn't have put the tolerance of the pyramids in the "the field can be out of spec by 4 inches" specification as the pyramid is such an integral part of the game that it would be a slap in the face to all the teams who designed climbers or robots they thought were short enough to go under the bar but might not be able to at every competition they go to.

Trust me, I'm just as confused and frustrated!!! I originally thought the 30" was to the top of the first bar as well (in the game manual). Then I looked at a later rev of the game manual and the dimension looked to be in the center of the bar. In the end, my team attempted to make our static hanger adjustable. I say attempt because I still had to spend 45 minutes at the regional machine shop getting the slots elongated (thank you to the machinist who helped me out!!). So with the full adjusted hanger that *should* have worked on the actually field (we had moved the hanger down based on the drive team's observations), the nose of the hanger was hitting the center of the bar on the practice field (which was measured at ~30" to the center of the first bar from the carpet)... A lot of head scratching until the field bar was measured and we started using 29-1/4". Heard a lot of other teams at BAE were having problems with the bar too.

[Woolly]

Also, on the subject of the pyramid, robots are standing up to falls better than anticipated. There was damage from falls, but I didn't see anything that really messed up a robot unless it flipped off the pyramid and landed directly on a mechanism.

[DjScribbles]

While the strategic value of shooting 5pt shots from the floor (with 50% accuracy) is questionable, it sure does get the crowd going.

Floor pick up is much more valuable than I personally expected.

Autonomous points are very big this year; if you can reliably gather extra game pieces, your robot will really stand out.

This game piece is pretty difficult to move around consistently. It's easy to shoot, but loading and collecting caused a few jams that crippled us for a match.

Keep the practice field away from the screen with scoring displays. In Traverse City, the sheet behind the practice goals blocked the view of the scores for approximately 1/3 of the audience.

[Blackphantom91]

1). This Game is a lot harder than expected.
2.) Defense totally rewrites how the game is played. It makes it feel like it is played in turns.
3.) Full-court shooters are very successful in qualifications if not stopped, but may falter in Eliminations rounds.
4.) Auto is the most important part of this game. It is really hard to make a comeback if all hit and one side doesn't. (more so than other seasons)
5.)Defense is going to evolve even further as weeks go by teams shutting down main robots and teams being forced to rely on other partners.

Overall week one impressions autonomous,autonomous,autonomous! This game runs on it IMO. I am hoping to see more 30pt climbs and how it can effect the game later on.