What we learned from week 1

[Sam_Mills]

We learned the importance of a good human player. Good HPs can severely reduce cycle times, and with so many human fed robots, this can make or break an alliance. Our HP was arguably the best at the Palmetto regional (at loading not throwing), and he is a major reason why we were successful.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by tinybob20

"I guess my big problem with the pyramid rules as written are that they do not award any protection to a machine that is inside of the pyramid but not touching it. One would think that this robot is offered some sort of protection, but that is not the case."

I can say I've seen this first-hand. On our alliance, we were the designated "climb-bot." in the final match (our bot lines up for a climb on the inside on one of the sides of the pyramid) we were pushed completely out of the pyramid by a defender, and just held away from the pyramid for the remainder of the match. I believe defense is going to be much bigger this year, compared to last.

Eh, you guys still won. Still can't find good video of that. I really wish the FLR webcast was archived like the prior years....

[dman14]

Originally Posted by thefro526

I guess my big problem with the pyramid rules as written are that they do not award any protection to a machine that is inside of the pyramid but not touching it. One would think that this robot is offered some sort of protection, but that is not the case.

Many teams, including my own, read the rules to the letter, and hence designed our robot in such a way that it will most certainly be touching it's tower while in shooting position. We discarded shooting from under the centre of the tower, and limited ourselves to the edges in order to be in the protection zone. I felt that it was a design constraint that needed to be given attention, rather than a loophole, or poorly written rule.

I don't have an objection to the tape on the floor idea, but I can see where other's objections may come from as it invalidates clever designs and fine tuned mechanisms that some teams may have built in order to touch the tower.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by dman14

I don't have an objection to the tape on the floor idea, but I can see where other's objections may come from as it invalidates clever designs and fine tuned mechanisms that some teams may have built in order to touch the tower.

...or defensive strategies based on the correct, to the letter interpretation of the rule.

Contact is contact. They don't count "touching air" for level incursion determination while climbing. Why would they count touching air for G30 penalties? You're protected if you are touching the PYRAMID.

"PYRAMID: the Red or Blue steel structure on which ROBOTS CLIMB for points."

Don't see "the air or carpet surrounding said steel structure" anywhere in there.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by dman14

Many teams, including my own, read the rules to the letter, and hence designed our robot in such a way that it will most certainly be touching it's tower while in shooting position. We discarded shooting from under the centre of the tower, and limited ourselves to the edges in order to be in the protection zone. I felt that it was a design constraint that needed to be given attention, rather than a loophole, or poorly written rule.

I am very sure that Dustin and his team read the rules to the letter. He is not proposing a rule change because he screwed up his own design. (edit: my apologies, this came out way harsher than I meant it to...)

Even if you do play to the edges of the tower, there is significantly less protection than you'd expect. Touching the corner of the tower, and then aiming while still clearly touching it, are both non-trivial. Lots of teams would drive up and touch or almost touch it, but then started to aim, drifted a half inch away, and then were completely vulnerable to defense. Not to mention referees seem to err on the side of no penalty when contact is ambiguous.

The pyramid is no 2012 key.

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Eh, you guys still won. Still can't find good video of that. I really wish the FLR webcast was archived like the prior years....

I have the whole FLR webcast recorded on my computer, well not all of it but most. If anyone wants to help split it up or wants me to send it their way let me know. Otherwise I will be working on getting it onto TBA but I'm a bit busy with school at the moment

[Steven Sigley]

At least at CVR:
Full court shooters are king. I saw two teams shooting full court and when they were dialed in they were making shots so fast it was insane. I counted roughly 11 frisbees shot into the top goal in about 25 seconds in one match. Alliances had to plan entirely around stopping these shooters. Even then it wasn't enough, team 840 took home the gold and it was well-deserved.

[dman14]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I am very sure that Dustin and his team read the rules to the letter. He is not proposing a rule change because he screwed up his own design.

I did not mean to imply this at all, and my apologies if it seemed like it. I too feel like the tower does deserves more protection, as I saw way too many G30's go uncalled. We just have to be careful about giving an advantage to certain designs with said increase in protection. (re your edit, I felt the same about my post. Words do not convey tone very well xD)

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The pyramid is no 2012 key.

You can say that again.

[Storcky]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

It only happened to this degree a couple of time in Lubbock, but there were many times that the field reset folks were out there with tape on smaller repairs.

Did this ever get a penalty from G14?

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Storcky

Did this ever get a penalty from G14?

Not that I'm aware, but a) they didn't always specify which rules were being used for penalties, and b) I wasn't always paying close attention by that point. Given some of the other non-calls, I wouldn't be surprised if "no" is the correct answer to your question.

[D.Allred]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

...or defensive strategies based on the correct, to the letter interpretation of the rule.

Contact is contact. They don't count "touching air" for level incursion determination while climbing. Why would they count touching air for G30 penalties? You're protected if you are touching the PYRAMID.

"PYRAMID: the Red or Blue steel structure on which ROBOTS CLIMB for points."

Don't see "the air or carpet surrounding said steel structure" anywhere in there.

Agreed. Taping the floor to create a larger protected area would be another significant rule change.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

I absolutely don't think this years game needs any more protected zones. The field is already cramped enough with the pyramids taking up huge swaths of space and robots trying to travel around them to feeder stations. Teams who planned (notably not mine) to travel under they pyramid to lower the traffic jam should be given their requisite bonus in not being penalized.

Simon, we actually utilize the same strategy. Being able to move under and through the pyramids essentially makes the field something like 20% larger than if you couldn't. Not to mention that discs have a tendancy to pile up inside and in front of the pyramid, leaving them as easy pickings for a good floor loader.

All of that being said, a line on the floor wouldn't really do much to hinder that, I think. All it does is make it easier to tell when an ally or opponent is being protected by their pyramid, and increases the amount of protection a robot receives from the pyramid by a marginal amount, unless you're one of those teams that likes to live dangerously and play defense within an inch of a protected area...

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

...or defensive strategies based on the correct, to the letter interpretation of the rule.

Contact is contact. They don't count "touching air" for level incursion determination while climbing. Why would they count touching air for G30 penalties? You're protected if you are touching the PYRAMID.

"PYRAMID: the Red or Blue steel structure on which ROBOTS CLIMB for points."

Don't see "the air or carpet surrounding said steel structure" anywhere in there.

Travis, I think we all know that no matter how the rules are written, you'll be playing defense on whatever fine line there is to play on.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I am very sure that Dustin and his team read the rules to the letter. He is not proposing a rule change because he screwed up his own design. (edit: my apologies, this came out way harsher than I meant it to...)

Even if you do play to the edges of the tower, there is significantly less protection than you'd expect. Touching the corner of the tower, and then aiming while still clearly touching it, are both non-trivial. Lots of teams would drive up and touch or almost touch it, but then started to aim, drifted a half inch away, and then were completely vulnerable to defense. Not to mention referees seem to err on the side of no penalty when contact is ambiguous.

The pyramid is no 2012 key.

Chris, no harm no foul, I know what you mean.

At the end of the day, I was just making a suggestion, I still don't see the reasons to not increase/make more well defined the protected area around the pyramid. That being said, we now know what we have to do to use it's protection and we will move on.

I predict that 2013 may be the year of the soccer flag, foam finger, random noodle, and whatever other stuff people come up with to be 'contacting' the pyramid while shooting.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Travis, I think we all know that no matter how the rules are written, you'll be playing defense on whatever fine line there is to play on.

Well duh!

We like playing offense too. We just don't like to be forced into playing one way or the other, especially if the coercion is implemented by namby-pamby after the fact rule changes that try to cram a certain style of gameplay down your throat.

[xraymypanda]

Originally Posted by thefro526

All of that being said, a line on the floor wouldn't really do much to hinder that, I think.

Don't forget that a team can place a single wheel into the lined zone and occupy the aisle diagonally to block a path to the feeder station that another robot won't fit through. A line greatly increases what I see as defensive opportunities by creating a limited path for a team to follow to get Frisbees.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by waialua359

This is good to know for our antenna as well.

However, are you saying that if you do it while a robot is trying to climb, that its a foul?

I BELIEVE that this would not be a foul, as long as you don't contact the opponents robot. The contact with the pyramid would still be inconsequential as you would not have affected an opponents climb, just brushed the pyramid lightly. But I'm not 100% positive on that point.