What we learned from week 1

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

The refs were calling this wrong until saturday when we asked about it. While you can't get a regular G30 because the other team is not in contact with the carpet, you can get a Technical Foul under G30 because of the intent of the action. (while I disagree with this interpretation of the rules, thats how they were calling it at Hub City after we specifically asked if we could block like that)

I don't see how G30 can possibly be interpreted to give a foul if the team is not in contact with their feeder station carpet. Simply put, I think the refs called this wrong if they are giving fouls only for blocking teams' access to their own feeder station.

Originally Posted by G30

Regardless of who initiates the contact, a ROBOT may not contact an opponent ROBOT

A. contacting its PYRAMID or
B. touching the carpet in its LOADING ZONE.


Violation: FOUL. If purposeful or consequential, TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent's CLIMB is affected, each affected opponent ROBOT will be granted credit for a Level 3 CLIMB at the end of the MATCH.

Intent is only in play if the rule is violated, and the ONLY way to violate the rule is if they are in contact with their loading zone or pyramid. If Blueabot gets to Redabot's loading zone first and prevents Redabot from contacting the loading zone carpet, G30 simply does not apply, because neither of the conditions can be violated, intent or not.

TLDR: If neither of the rule conditions apply, you cannot receive a foul for violating those conditions.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

I don't see how G30 can possibly be interpreted to give a foul if the team is not in contact with their feeder station carpet. Simply put, I think the refs called this wrong if they are giving fouls only for blocking teams' access to their own feeder station.



Intent is only in play if the rule is violated, and the ONLY way to violate the rule is if they are in contact with their loading zone or pyramid. If Blueabot gets to Redabot's loading zone first and prevents Redabot from contacting the loading zone carpet, G30 simply does not apply, because neither of the conditions can be violated, intent or not.

TLDR: If neither of the rule conditions apply, you cannot receive a foul for violating those conditions.

The violation comes with teams working together to obstruct the flow of a game. AKA sitting in the opposing alliances safe zone in front of their feeder station.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

The violation comes with teams working together to obstruct the flow of a game. AKA sitting in the opposing alliances safe zone in front of their feeder station.

This is an iffy call, and it's a G25 penalty. Greg said specifically that they were assessing technical fouls under G30 for the situation he described, which is what I think is wrong.

G25 cannot apply unless the alliance is working together to do this (eg. both feeder stations are blocked by opposing robots). G25 applies only to the actions of multiple robots (plural), so a single robot preventing access to the feeder station should not be penalized under G25.

[Clinton Bolinger]

See the following Q&A:

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...eeder-stations

Q. Is it in violation of G25 for an alliance to restrict/block access to one or two of the opposition feeder stations?
2013-02-14 by FRC1884

A. We rely on the judgement of our Referees to make this decision in each MATCH. Generally, blocking access to a FEEDER STATION is not considered a violation of [G25]. Blocking access to all FEEDER STATIONS would be considered a violation of [G25].

-Clinton-

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

The violation comes with teams working together to obstruct the flow of a game. AKA sitting in the opposing alliances safe zone in front of their feeder station.

That would be a G-25, but has no bearing if it is not multiple robots working together. Would also have no bearing if the field wasn't blockaded. Their is an alternate location to get discs from.

G25
ROBOTS on the same ALLIANCE may not blockade the FIELD in an attempt to stop the flow of the MATCH. This rule has no effect on individual ROBOT-ROBOT interaction.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL

Edit: Beaten to it.

[notmattlythgoe]

Touche.

[Nuttyman54]

I found the Q&A I was looking for to support my original statement, FWIW:

Originally Posted by Q26

Q.If part of our robot is in contact with the carpet on our side, but has part of the robot in contact
with the opponents carpet, and comes in contact with another opponent robot in autonomous,
would a technical foul be assessed? If so, would the foul be assessed to both teams who make the
contact?
A.If the ROBOT has not violated [G19], no penalty will be assessed.

This is in regards to G19, but it general supports an official ruling that if the terms of the rule have not been violated, no penalty can be assessed.