Some thoughts on rules, refs, and ranking

[Shankar M]

While I am going to avoid any of the specific references brought up in the original post, I think it is worth addressing a couple of things related to the clarity of rules and their enforcement at events. Two things regularly stand out to me that perhaps merit some (re)consideration.

Referee Accountability
Let me preface this point by saying that I am eternally grateful to the myriad volunteers that make FIRST tick. The countless hours that are put in by people that give their time to the programme has a profound impact on its participants (me included).

The role of referee is amongst the most difficult to take on at a FIRST event. It takes time to prepare for the event before carrying out the various tasks in a high-energy, stressful environment. It is hard, often thankless, work that makes me admire referees tremendously for the work that they do.

That said, I think one must not ignore the fact that any role (as a volunteer or not) comes with responsibilities. It will not take you very many threads to find a reference to the fact that FIRST is very much a microcosm for the real world. In this real world, accountability for your actions is paramount and ignorance is not a passable excuse. There are plenty of other jobs that are screaming for your involvement if you do not quite have the time to dedicate to being a referee.

Yes referees are volunteers, yes they are human and will occasionally err as we all do, but that is not a get-out-of-jail-free card applicable to every situation. Let us find a way to hold our referees accountable so we do not hear complaints about referee rulings event after event, year after year.

Penalty Announcements
I would love to see penalty calls (and their rationale) explained by the head referee. As the field is reset there is often an opportunity to explain why a call has been made in a given match - there may only be time to explain why technical fouls are called, but something is better than nothing at all.

In my experience, as a score is read off by the announcer readying themselves to introduce the forthcoming match, on rare occasions references may be made to fouls assigned but almost never to why they were called. Perhaps this is to be expected: the announcer's role is keep the atmosphere of the event exciting, not to elucidate the minutiae of the rules.

Allowing the head referee a moment to announce any penalties and why they were enforced as they were would bring transparency to a generally murky realm. It would make clear to all teams at the event how the referee interprets the rules and what actions must be taken to avoid being penalised in the future while adding an element of accountability to the referee's actions.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Shankar M

Penalty Announcements
I would love to see penalty calls (and their rationale) explained by the head referee. As the field is reset there is often an opportunity to explain why a call has been made in a given match - there may only be time to explain why technical fouls are called, but something is better than nothing at all.

I recall in 2008 when there were always lots of penalties, the announcer often read the team number, followed by the rule number the penalty was assessed for (G22, G16, etc). Particularly rare calls were explained, at least in eliminations.

I think this should be standard operating procedure, as it clears up a lot of confusion and issues. It's the standard in other sports, like football, for the referee to state what the infraction was for and who it was on. In odd cases (such as 1pt safeties) they explain the full context of what happened and why it merited the call. I agree, at the very least the announcer should be told what rule was violated and who the penalty was assessed on for tech fouls. Especially in eliminations, the teams and spectators are owed at least that.

[MarkHamilton]

I was a ref at an event this weekend, and I have been a ref for a number of years. Before that, I was a student and a driver. I know what it's like to be on both sides. I will not comment on the specific call you refer to, it would not be appropriate, and I can only give a personal opinion and can not in any way speak for FIRST, FIRST policy, or for how rules will be implemented at future events.

I will give some personal observations.
1. There are 5 refs on the field, and 6 robots and 24 people who are all capable of causing a foul. Calls will be missed, and some wrong calls will be made. It is unfortunate but it is reality.

2. Some of the rules are subjective and will be enforced differently. Blockading is an extremely difficult rule to call, as is rule G-18-1. Rule G27 requires refs to determine the difference between consequential and inconsequential contact. If you have questions, talk to the head ref on Thursday and ask them to clarify for you their take on it.

3. Every ref I have worked with as a ref is 100% dedicated to getting calls right. No one takes mistakes lightly.

4. The field runs on an extremely tight schedule. In order to get 8 matches for every team there can only be a few minutes in between matches. There is no time to review video, and FIRST rules explicitly deny it. The head ref has a lot of responsibilities during that time, and the refs are busy making sure the field and robots for the next match are setup legally. Furthermore, the rules clearly state all questions must come from a student member of the team directly to the head ref.

5. In my opinion, the quality of the reffing at the events I have attended, from the time I was a driver to now, has consistently been improving.

If you want to help improve the quality of these events:
1. Know the rules and avoid situations that make it a judgement call. Talk to the teams on your alliance while in the queue and try to make sure they know the rules as well.
2. Ask questions, especially on Thursday when it's not as busy, before the situation arises.
3. Encourage as many people as possible to volunteer at regionals, especially people with previous FIRST experience. The wider the pool of volunteers, the better referee's will be.

[bduddy]

Vague rules create situations like this. This situation and this topic are case in point as to why justifications like "common sense", "don't lawyer the rules", etc. etc. don't work. If the "blockading" rule is going to remain in the rulebook, it needs to be at a bare minimum clarified by examples, or else it will remain as it is now: it could theoretically be applied to any defensive effort by more than one robot, and no one knows where the line will be drawn.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Shankar M

Penalty Announcements
I would love to see penalty calls (and their rationale) explained by the head referee. As the field is reset there is often an opportunity to explain why a call has been made in a given match - there may only be time to explain why technical fouls are called, but something is better than nothing at all.

In my experience, as a score is read off by the announcer readying themselves to introduce the forthcoming match, on rare occasions references may be made to fouls assigned but almost never to why they were called. Perhaps this is to be expected: the announcer's role is keep the atmosphere of the event exciting, not to elucidate the minutiae of the rules.

Allowing the head referee a moment to announce any penalties and why they were enforced as they were would bring transparency to a generally murky realm. It would make clear to all teams at the event how the referee interprets the rules and what actions must be taken to avoid being penalised in the future while adding an element of accountability to the referee's actions.

Interesting, I thought this was already the case. In fact, a random review of my match videos has the GA explaining the specific technical foul violation in every single one. (Sometimes the team number is omitted, particularly for very specific--e.g. human player violations--so as not to call out a specific student in front of a thousand people. However, my alliance has always been provided this information directly, at least if we ask.)

I've never had a question about why a technical foul occurred against my alliance in this year or previous ones where similar concepts existed. Sometimes the announcement has been omitted for whatever reason--usually coinciding with comm or scoring issues--but in 7 years and 11 different official venues, I've never encountered a situation in which a polite student in the Q box was not told the exact nature of challengable fouls. (Mentors not so much, but it's illegal and unprofessional for us mentors to be asking anyway.) This is not to say I always agree with the calls, but at least they're not a mystery. If this disclosure is not the case for everyone, I agree that should be remedied. I wonder why the discrepancy exists in the first place. What happens when a student politely questions the technical, and what does the head ref say when you request announcements at the driver's meeting?


As to G25, if you have a Q&A to ask, please do. The chances of rules getting clarified goes down significantly if you don't try.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by Shankar M

Penalty Announcements
I would love to see penalty calls (and their rationale) explained by the head referee. As the field is reset there is often an opportunity to explain why a call has been made in a given match - there may only be time to explain why technical fouls are called, but something is better than nothing at all.

In my experience, as a score is read off by the announcer readying themselves to introduce the forthcoming match, on rare occasions references may be made to fouls assigned but almost never to why they were called. Perhaps this is to be expected: the announcer's role is keep the atmosphere of the event exciting, not to elucidate the minutiae of the rules.

Allowing the head referee a moment to announce any penalties and why they were enforced as they were would bring transparency to a generally murky realm. It would make clear to all teams at the event how the referee interprets the rules and what actions must be taken to avoid being penalised in the future while adding an element of accountability to the referee's actions.

I am a Game Announcer at GSR, WPI, Boston, and Hartford this year.
I always try to announce and explain fouls, especially technicals fouls, who they were called on for affecting which Robot, and why.
This is very important to reduce question box activity, but also to explain to the audience and provide data for scouts.
This is discussed in our weekly conference calls with Blair.
We hope to improve on this in the upcoming weeks.