Some thoughts on rules, refs, and ranking

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by nicholsjj

After looking at the scoring I understand why you would feel this way. Team 3862 lost two qualifying matches last year due to volunteer error(which equated to about 1500 dollars worth of matches).

I'm sorry for not understanding, but what? How do you have a system where you earn $750 per match won? This seems very different from all sponsorship we have or I have veer heard of.

[Starke]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

I'm sorry for not understanding, but what? How do you have a system where you earn $750 per match won? This seems very different from all sponsorship we have or I have veer heard of.

I believe he is dividing up the $5000 dollar entrance fee into the number of matches played. Depending on the number of matches played, a team pays roughly $500 - $750 dollars per match.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by Starke

I believe he is dividing up the $5000 dollar entrance fee into the number of matches played.

I believe he is saying that they're paying $6000 for a regional and they get 8 matches, so they're paying $750 per match to play.

Aah, thank you, I was very confused about that. However, are you really viewing the registration fee as paying for matches? I don't think that viewing 2 matches that were affected by a referee's decision as a complete waste is a good outlook on FIRST. Frankly, the referee's are just volunteers. If you are taking this so seriously that winning qualifying matches are that big of a deal to you, I think you need a bit of a reality check.

FIRST isn't about winning qualifying matches or even blue banners from the Championship. It's about inspiring science and technology in the youth. I guarantee that the kids on the team won't remember specific matches in anything other than a positive light several years from now. If they don't, they aren't doing FIRST for the right reason.

Please, can we stop complaining about the referees and the rules? GDC works hard to make these games every year. Just because something didn't go your way doesn't mean that it was a bad game. More often than not it was most likely actually your fault. No one is trying to "fix" FIRST matches. Let's stop acting like the referees are all wrong and that they are out to get you. 90% of the time the referee's make the correct call and when they don't it really doesn't matter.

Just my $0.02, sorry if it doesn't agree with yours.

[tzjin]

I agree completely that matches are not fixed. Human error is at fault, not some conspiracy FIRST has planned against any individual team. The fact that 5 referees (at LSR) handled the entire event is still mind-boggling to me, and I know I certainly would have had an extremely difficult time in their shoes. Their sacrifice of time and effort is certainly much appreciated.

That being said, the registration costs are quite significant for most teams, and the students on ours raised every penny. While I disagree with the sentiment that losing the match is equivalent to wasting a portion of the payment, it is certainly disappointing to know that your ranking was determined by a decision beyond your control. Winning is still an important part of the competition after all. Just as athletes shed sweat and tears for the gold, FRC teams toil and labor for a blue banner. Inspiration from the process is certainly the most important, but it's awfully difficult to be motivated when your efforts may be rendered useless by the interpretation of a rule. I know certainly that there are still a few who laugh wistfully at our team's last match at SVR 2008.

There were two main issues I noticed. Firstly, results could not be challenged whatsoever. There is a question box for drive coaches to respectfully request review of the match. We were brushed off twice by the understandably busy head referee. There was a video recording on hand, but due to FIRST's rules, it could not be factored into the decision. It took a little while to shake off the disappointment, but we were fine after another match.

Secondly, the interpretation of rules varies a bit from competition to competition. For instance, fouls for contacting an opposing robot touching their pyramid was heavily enforced in certain Week 1 regionals, but was passed over multiple times during LSR.


Unfortunately, I criticize yet have no concrete solutions to offer. More in-depth training, a more specific rules manual and a greater number of referees would probably help, but how much would have to be seen. This has been an issue year after year, and while it has been getting better, an incorrect call still stings.

It would be wrong to pass over this flaw completely, but it is important to recognize that the referees are trying their best. So once again, I feel the need to thank the volunteers for their hours of service. They have an extremely difficult job, and every team appreciates their contributions to the regional.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

I'm sorry for not understanding, but what? How do you have a system where you earn $750 per match won? This seems very different from all sponsorship we have or I have veer heard of.

I believe he is saying that they're paying $6000 for a regional and they get 8 matches, so they're paying $750 per match to play.