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#31
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
You don't need a floor pick-up nor a shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXTZyHvM4A |
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#32
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Quote:
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#33
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
You could feed another bot to score the full auto. points
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#34
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Someone still has to pick the other 6 off the ground.
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#35
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
To answer the question, I believe that we will see more teams use the feeder station than to pick up Frisbee from the floor, Now whether or not one is better than the other is totally depends on the alliance. Like mentions before, 148 & 118 worked well together because 1 worked the feeder well and 1 could pick up well.
So what would happen if there was an alliance of 3 that picked up from the floor. And another alliance that only fed from the human players? Point is, there is no definite answer. This is FIRST, Whatever works well with your team is the best. |
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#36
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
That is what you guys are for.
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#37
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Quote:
In other words, alliance a cross-court shooter, a ground pickup bot, and an offensive lineman to protect the cc shooter and we'll see if the cc shooter has been negated. That's like saying a pocket passing QB has been negated because he can't avoid the rush without his O-line. The best example I've seen so far of this was 51 blocking 4779 from deflecting 3604's cc shots. But even that was only in passing to/from attempting their 5pt disc shots. I really, really, REALLY would like to see a "complete" cross-court shooting alliance assembled to legitimize this strategy's effectivity. |
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#38
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
We found that our ground pick-up paired with 2791's great feeder station bot made a great alliance at WPI.
However, technical issues with bots certainly didn't help our alliance much, that's for sure. |
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#39
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
This is an interesting discussion; Let's add some math.
Assumptions: -the “floor pickup” robot is a robot that can score 42 points in auto (under pyramid) or 30 points (from midfield) and can hang in 5 sec for 10 points. -the “30 point hanger” is a robot that scores 18 points in auto and can hang in 15sec for 30 points. -All robots are 100% accurate in auto and 90% accurate in teleop. All robots always hang. -Teleop cycles from the human player station and back are 20 seconds. (seems reasonable with high level play including Defense.) Floor loading and shooting from around your side of the pyramid takes 10 sec. -Assume that the robots are not getting in each other’s way. -A third pick should not be able to meet the above (or they are the most ridiculous sleeper in FRC history.) I will be running through examples with only two robots (presumably alliance captain and first pick.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example 1: “Floor pickup” + “30 point climber” Auto points: 42 “floor pickup” + 18 “30 point climber” = 60 auto points Teleop for “30 point climber” = 54+30 (climbing) = 84 120sec-15sec = 105sec in match to work with 105sec/20sec per trip = 5.25 trips round down ~5 trips 5trips * 4 disks = 20 disks 20 disks *90% accuracy = 18 disks 18 disks * 3 points = 54 points Teleop for “ground pickup” =66 +10(climb) = 76 120sec - 5sec = 115sec in match to work with 20sec per trip * 5 trips = 100 sec of feeder station trips 5 trips * 4 volleys = 20disks 20 disks *90% accuracy = 18disks 18disks * 3 points = 54 points At this point in the match there are 4 disks on the ground and 15sec before hanging. 4disks on ground * 3points= 12 points 54 points + 12 points = 66 points Total teleop points: 84 points +76 points= 160 points Total match points: 60auto + 160 teleop = 220 points Example 2: “30 point climber” + “30 point climber” Auto points: 18 + 18 = 36 points Teleop for “30 point climber”: 54 + 30(climb) = 84 points Total teleop points: 84 points * 2 robots = 168 Total match points: 36auto + 168teleop = 204 points Example 3: “ground pickup” + “ground pickup” Auto points: 42+30= 72 points Teleop for “ground pickup”: 76 points Teleop for “ground pickup” two: 64 points See “ground pickup” in example 1 excluding the 12 extra points from picking up off the ground (because the first “ground pickup” robot got those.) Total teleop points: 76 + 64 = 140 points Total match points: 76auto + 140teleop = 216 points Total match points without middle field auto: 60auto + 140teleop = 200 points ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In summary: -The “ground pickup” + “30 point climber” is the most effective at 220 points. -The “ground pickup” + “ground pickup” was the second most effective with 216 points. -The “30 point climber” + “30 point climber” was the third most effective with 204 points. -The “ground pickup” + “ground pickup” was the least effective if the second “ground pickup” could not get the disks in the middle of the field. The scores are obviously very close. I think that both strategies are very evenly matched. If we had real teams competing in any of these scenarios it would come down to what the third robot did during the match. Huh, longest post ever. Regards, Bryan Last edited by BJC : 12-03-2013 at 17:05. |
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#40
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Quote:
The scores that you estimated were just a little above the maximum that 1114 and 2056 scored. Perhaps robots getting in each other's way or defense made up for the difference. |
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#41
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Edit: or autonomous misses
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#42
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
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I quoted these assumptions because defense crushes in teleop, and I have seen wk2 7pt autos to be less accurate in percentage than teleop, which is rarely a 90% in accuracy already. I think that as the game progresses, autonomous will become more accurate, and matches will be more viciously defensive. Staying around the safe pyramid as much as possible is a strategy made possible with a floor pickup as well. It also makes getting to the pyramid for climbing more reliable for a 30pt or even a 10pt climber as well. |
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#43
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
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Obviously those are going to be common and effective, but you also have teams like 1986 with Pickup+Climb 30 I also think that your ground pickup bot could score even more if they got fed a couple discs fed across the field to them by either the third bot or the 30 Point Hanger. It'll be interesting to see what other combinations teams come up with as we go into week 3 and beyond. Some teams are looking at a full court shooter- usually a feeder station bot- with a bot playing counter-defense which could be a powerful strategy as well. I think 2168 King-Tec did that, but I only heard that through word-of-mouth as I wasn't watching their webcast. Anyway- cheers to strategy! |
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#44
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Quote:
Quote:
Regards, Bryan |
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#45
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Re: Floor pickup Vs. feeder station
Very true- even 1114 and 2056 weren't doing that- they were close- but not quite that much. Their third bot was also doing quite a lot- especially in auto- to help them get their massive score.
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