pic: High Score in FRC Ultimate Ascent

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

The scores have not been contained to weeks 1 and 2. I wouldn't be surprised to see them off this week as well. While the spread isn't as bad as it was in week 1 it still is not correct. In some instances the regionals aren't re-calibrating the scoring system and they are not hand counting the frisbees, solely relying on the scoring system. We re-ran match footage, included penalty scores, and the final scores were still off by ~20 points...

Are you absolutely sure they are not hand-counting frisbees? Sometimes they will display a score before they correct it with a hand count, but only if the match outcome is obvious. The updated score in this case is put into the ranking system but not announced.

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Are you absolutely sure they are not hand-counting frisbees? Sometimes they will display a score before they correct it with a hand count, but only if the match outcome is obvious. The updated score in this case is put into the ranking system but not announced.

Yes, at one event so far my answer is yes. There is no way the frisbees were hand counted because the final posted score does not match the score when you replay the video of the match...

But it happens and getting these things to be consistent at each event is a challenge.

[blayde5]

From what I experienced as a volunteer doing Field Reset at Pittsburgh was this:

FIRST found out the sensors were a bit wonky in week 1 and week 2 so they started having some field reset people and volunteers count the frisbees. The weight sensors would only be used, like people said before, for real time scoring and could very well be off.

What Pittsburgh ended up doing was having the Field Reset people both count during the match and actually take out the frisbees from each goal at the end of the match, count and log them with the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper will then log everything, including penalties and pyramid goals and climb points and such, and then show the "Final Score" (the score that will be the "official score" used for everything needing it like the Qualification system and such). The score that people see during the match and immediately after is the estimated score based solely on the weight sensors in the goals (which can and have been off before)

Going into the future, I think they're probably going to require that regionals hand count frisbees to avoid errors in scoring, especially when a match is a close one.

[Chris is me]

One minor clarification: FIRST has been hand counting frisbees after the match and having a volunteer give a count during auto since week 1 at BAE. I'm really, really surprised that some events didn't get the memo.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

Yes, at one event so far my answer is yes. There is no way the frisbees were hand counted because the final posted score does not match the score when you replay the video of the match...

But it happens and getting these things to be consistent at each event is a challenge.

Were the 20 missing points maybe invalid climbs? May we see the video?

[JohnFogarty]

I was a field reset volunteer for Peachtree and I noticed that when this happened a Frisbee somehow got wedged in a very precarious position in the goal pushing the lexan "weight plate" down.

[Robotmmm]

Dancin103

What event? I was at the TCNJ District where you last competed and was curious about if they were counting. I carefully watched the volunteers count and record all the discs after each match. I even counted the shots sometimes and checked it against their count and scoring and it seemed correct in the matches where I did this.

[Kristian Calhoun]

IMO, there should be two people manually verifying the scores for each alliance.

I would also gladly wait the extra 2-3 minutes for the scorekeepers to input the official manual disc counts into the system before displaying the scores to the audience. Even if the outcome of a match isn't changed, it would show everyone at the event that the scoring is at least being done properly.

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

IMO, there should be two people manually verifying the scores for each alliance.

I would also gladly wait the extra 2-3 minutes for the scorekeepers to input the official manual disc counts into the system before displaying the scores to the audience. Even if the outcome of a match isn't changed, it would show everyone at the event that the scoring is at least being done properly.

I volunteered as a scorer at an off season event this year. At least for last year, the FMS system could not begin connecting to the next matches robots until after the score from the previous match was posted. This means that in matches where you wait for the discs to be meticulously counted, waiting for that count becomes the rate determining step in match cycle times. I believe this may be why FIRST elected to post scores ASAP for matches that aren't close; it will speed up the match cycles because they can connect to the next match's robots sooner.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

I volunteered as a scorer at an off season event this year. At least for last year, the FMS system could not begin connecting to the next matches robots until after the score from the previous match was posted. This means that in matches where you wait for the discs to be meticulously counted, waiting for that count becomes the rate determining step in match cycle times. I believe this may be why FIRST elected to post scores ASAP for matches that aren't close; it will speed up the match cycles because they can connect to the next match's robots sooner.

You are correct, the system still works that way this year.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

IMO, there should be two people manually verifying the scores for each alliance.

There are multiple field reset volunteers who manually count the frisbees. The same people who get them out of the goals also count them. It takes a small army to do field reset this year. Every match is manually counted.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Originally Posted by Gregor

There are multiple field reset volunteers who manually count the frisbees. The same people who get them out of the goals also count them. It takes a small army to do field reset this year. Every match is manually counted.

I'm not debating that point. I've been to events this year that only had one person counting the frisbees for each alliance for the entire weekend. In such cases, it would have been nice to have some redundancy/error checking in the final counts.

[mhos1997]

We just saw a score of 514 from all disc points in LA. Then we read about the glitches. =(

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

I'm not debating that point. I've been to events this year that only had one person counting the frisbees for each alliance for the entire weekend. In such cases, it would have been nice to have some redundancy/error checking in the final counts.

That's not good. Do you know if it was a shortage of volunteers, or just disorganization?

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Kristian Calhoun

I'm not debating that point. I've been to events this year that only had one person counting the frisbees for each alliance for the entire weekend. In such cases, it would have been nice to have some redundancy/error checking in the final counts.

We had two volunteers on each end counting them at the Detroit District last weekend and it worked really well for us. We would tally them as they flew into the goals and take the sheets to the scoring table right after the game ended. If there were any discrepancies between the scorers, we would take the discs out of the goals and count them. It was only really an issue when discs were flying into the goals very quickly (thanks, 469...).

As far as I know, we didn't get any complaints about inaccuracies. I don't know how accurate it was when compared to the results from the sensors, but it seemed like you could tell the outcome of a match as it ended unless the point totals were within 5 or 10 points.

For the record, we had 8 or 9 field reset volunteers, and it worked out well for us. Field reset was definitely more work this time than it has been for the past few years.