Bumper Restrictions

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by RoeeVulcan

During our inspection problems kept coming out with the way we did our bumpers. In result i have two questions:
1) Where can i see a list with the full bumper restrictions? Do any of you have one? I remember searching for one with the height of the ground our bumpers can have, without any luck in the manual, and than having it on the inspectors list.
2) Have the bumper rules ever change since they were first introduced? Is there a possibility that a solution for the bumpers i will find this year be banned by the next?

1 - The "BUMPER Rules" section of the ROBOT RULES lists everything specific to the bumpers. For the bumper height, R25 clearly states the "BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is between 2 and 10 in. from the floor, in reference to the ROBOT standing normally on a flat floor."

2 - Expect them to change every year, and you'll never have an issue at inspection. Read the rules, and figure out your bumper design just like you would your drive train - bumpers are just as important as everything else, and must be constructed legally!

[RoeeVulcan]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

1 - The "BUMPER Rules" section of the ROBOT RULES lists everything specific to the bumpers. For the bumper height, R25 clearly states the "BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is between 2 and 10 in. from the floor, in reference to the ROBOT standing normally on a flat floor."

2 - Expect them to change every year, and you'll never have an issue at inspection. Read the rules, and figure out your bumper design just like you would your drive train - bumpers are just as important as everything else, and must be constructed legally!

it is just that i have an idea for a little more- tactical-bumpers and i wanted to know if they were legal. anyway thanks for the answer. i hope it won't be a one trick pony before first restricts it.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by RoeeVulcan

it is just that i have an idea for a little more- tactical-bumpers and i wanted to know if they were legal.

Basic word of advice: If it complies with all of the bumper rules, it probably is legal. If it doesn't comply with one or more, it is not legal. If you aren't sure, you're probably best off asking Q&A about it before you get to your first event; that way the inspectors aren't either telling you to change it or asking the GDC and then telling you to change it.

I do remember hearing about some weight-transferring bumpers back before the standard bumper design came out (2006); those were effectively banned by the bumper rules in 2008 (standard bumpers were optional in 2006 and 2007).

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by RoeeVulcan

it is just that i have an idea for a little more- tactical-bumpers and i wanted to know if they were legal. anyway thanks for the answer. i hope it won't be a one trick pony before first restricts it.

The bumper rules are actually quite self-explanatory this year, with the major changes being 3 points:

1. Hex and Star pool noodles are now allowed
2. 3/4" thick durable wood is allowed, rather than just plywood, and
3. Team numbers can be split across bumper gaps

Of course, I have to ask, knowing that I will probably regret it... What the heck is a tactical bumper?

[Grim Tuesday]

I mean, given the current rules, it would be legal to use (if you could find it) some 3/4 pieces of ironwood, if you wanted to weigh your robot down for some reason. I even suppose you could weight half your bumpers with a heavy wood and the other half with a light one but I don't know how much within the spirit of bumpers this is.

[Jon Stratis]

Why bother using exotic woods for weight on your bumpers? Just use enough steel in your brackets to get their weight up to 20lbs for the set (if that's what you're looking for). There aren't any rules to using heavy steel blocks with holes thorough them as bumper brackets, so long as you mind the weight limit.

[IndySam]

The bumpers are intended for protection and identification. I don't much like when teams start stretching the rules for some tactical advantage.

Pay heed if I am inspecting (or many other inspectors I know) your robot and you are lawyering or stretching the rules you better have a perfect robot in every other respect because you are going to get the most thorough inspection ever.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by IndySam

The bumpers are intended for protection and identification. I don't much like when teams start stretching the rules for some tactical advantage.

Pay heed if I am inspecting (or many other inspectors I know) your robot and you are lawyering or stretching the rules you better have a perfect robot in every other respect because you are going to get the most thorough inspection ever.

I don't think this is fair. If teams build their bumpers within the rules, and you don't agree with the rules, why should the team get a more difficult inspection?

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, if they comply with the rules, it is not your position to judge.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Gregor

I don't think this is fair. If team's builds their bumpers within the rules, and you don't agree with the rules, why should the team get a more difficult inspection?

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, if they comply with the rules, it is not your position to judge.

I'm not talking about being within the rules, I'm talking about stretching them to the breaking point. Mounting a 10 pound steel plate to a bumper that has no real practical reason is violating the spirit of the rules.

And as far as your second point, in fact, is is the inspectors job to judge if a team is complying with the rules.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I'm not talking about being within the rules, I'm talking about stretching them to the breaking point. Mounting a 10 pound steel plate to a bumper that has no real practical reason is violating the spirit of the rules.

And as far as your second point, in fact, is is the inspectors job to judge if a team is complying with the rules.

Stretching the rules is still complying with the rules. Until it is explicitly illegal to add weight just to add weight (assuming all other bumper rules are met), giving a team a harsher inspection is against the point of inspection. Is the point of inspection not to get all teams on the field, while ensure that they comply with all the rules?

It is the inspector's job to inspect the robot, they inspect the robot for compliance, end of story.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Stretching the rules is still complying with the rules. Until it is explicitly illegal to add weight just to add weight (assuming all other bumper rules are met), giving a team a harsher inspection is against the point of inspection. Is the point of inspection not to get all teams on the field, while ensure that they comply with all the rules?

It is the inspector's job to inspect the robot, they inspect the robot for compliance, end of story.

Yes, but....when teams don't know some of the rules, they tend not to know others. So while looking at the robot & talking to the team I get the sense that they don't really understand the basics, I take extra time to make sure they haven't missed some of the other things. So, if you don't know how to properly build bumpers (which, despite all the grumbling, are NOT hard) then I wonder if you didn't read the pneumatic rules either. So I'd better take an even harder look at something that could quickly become a safety issue.

[Racer26]

I really don't understand why the bumper rules are such an annual sticking point. Anybody with some fabric, pool noodles, plywood, and a staple gun can build legal bumpers in an hour or two.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Racer26

I really don't understand why the bumper rules are such an annual sticking point. Anybody with some fabric, pool noodles, plywood, and a staple gun can build legal bumpers in an hour or two.

They're a problem for so many teams every year because teams ignore/forget about them until the last minute. Everyone is so focused on getting the robot built, that they don't bother with bumpers until the last minute, and even at that point they stick their least-capable students on it while everyone else focuses on the "harder stuff".

If more teams thought about bumpers earlier, and spent the time to make them right, then they wouldn't be a problem for anyone. For my team, we had one of our best students sign up to do bumpers, and she started on them a week before Stop Build Day... after she finished designing and building our climbing arm. The bumpers are reversible, look great, and can be mounted quickly (in fact, they mount quicker than any other set of bumpers we've had). Treating the bumpers as equally important as any other part of the robot leads to them looking just as good as the rest of the robot!

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Yes, but....when teams don't know some of the rules, they tend not to know others. So while looking at the robot & talking to the team I get the sense that they don't really understand the basics, I take extra time to make sure they haven't missed some of the other things. So, if you don't know how to properly build bumpers (which, despite all the grumbling, are NOT hard) then I wonder if you didn't read the pneumatic rules either. So I'd better take an even harder look at something that could quickly become a safety issue.

That makes sense. Teams who build bumpers with extra weights typically know that section of the rules more than a given team, not less. If the weights comply with every rule, they clearly know what they're doing. Does this justify going over their robot with a fine tooth comb?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Gregor

That makes sense. Teams who build bumpers with extra weights typically know that section of the rules more than a given team, not less. If the weights comply with every rule, they clearly know what they're doing. Does this justify going over their robot with a fine tooth comb?

If they have skirted just to the edge of one section of the rules - perhaps having to weasel-word their way to passing - then what else may they have creatively interpreted? While their creative bumper design is just barely legal, maybe the electrical or pneumatic system is not legal.