Modifying robot at competition?

[Jefferson]

Originally Posted by jee7s

FRC 2789 did this at least 4 times this season, notably during elims at Lubbock. With the help of the Bomb Squad, we taped on a bunch of pool noodle and fiberglass rod between matches.

And let me add ya'll were very cool with it. I'm not sure all teams would be happy about taping pool noodles and fiberglass rods to their robot, but y'all were willing to do whatever it took.

Y'all were great to work with and did and excellent job blocking 2468s full court shot. It got us into the finals where we ran up against 1986... not much we could do about them.

[markmcgary]

In my humble opinion, some of these rules appear to conflict with one another. However, I believe that it is in the spirit of FIRST to allow adaptation in response to circumstances. So, modify away. I just wish it was as easy to add a decent disk collector as it is to add a pool noodle blocker.

[J-Blondie]

I think that it was just good strategy that came into play there. They saw the opportunity and snagged it to pretty much shutdown one of the power teams on the alliance. I've seen teams do that plenty through the years. I know your alliances defender robot was trying their best to defend you guys from them, but in the end, it just didn't play out.

[MooreteP]

This is one of the cooler aspects of FIRST.

Watching teams engaged in design iteration during the limited window of Thursday practice, then in between Friday and Saturday matches, is like Jazz.

Especially the blockers that magically appear after lunch on Saturday.

[2789_B_Garcia]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

Watching teams engaged in design iteration during the limited window of Thursday practice, then in between Friday and Saturday matches, is like Jazz.

You're absolutely right...and working with Mr. Novak and the Bomb Squad to do this is like sharing a duet with John Coltrane or Miles Davis! They are truly inspiring to work with!

[SteveE]

The 3 areas I look for are starting inside the frame perimeter, weight, and then overall height. Once I know the height, and that they are legal, they are free to compete, and then I can relay the height to the referees so that they know that the bot is 59.5" instead of 60.5".

The height limit is actually 84 inches, even at the beginning. You just can't go out of your auto zone if it is above 60.

[trilogy2826]

Originally Posted by SteveE

The height limit is actually 84 inches, even at the beginning. You just can't cross center field if it is above 60.

Correction: You cannot leave your Auto Zone if the robot is over 60" tall

[Richard Wallace]

IKE did a great job covering this topic from the LRI's point of view in an earlier post.

One additional consideration that should not be missed is:

"R05 The ROBOT weight may not exceed 120 lbs. When determining weight, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional MECHANISMS that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT shall be weighed together." (emphasis mine)

Reading the above together with the provision of T08 (quoted by the OP) "during the entire competition event," I interpret the combination of rules to mean that ALL mechanisms included on the robot at any time during the event should be weighed together when the robot is presented for inspection, and that this should be required when/if any new mechanisms are added.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

IKE did a great job covering this topic from the LRI's point of view in an earlier post.

snip

Reading the above together with the provision of T08 (quoted by the OP) "during the entire competition event," I interpret the combination of rules to mean that ALL mechanisms included on the robot at any time during the event should be weighed together when the robot is presented for inspection, and that this should be required when/if any new mechanisms are added.

An interesting point. For hypothetical, You have a 120 lb robot. During the competition you couldn't pull your 30 lb climber to put on you 10 lb blocker (fabbed during competition) because the total weight would be 130lbs? IE during reinspection the removed climber should be included as part of the robot.

Replacing damaged parts one for one is a different discussion.

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

Thanks, Jefferson! ...and just so you know, 2789 is working on version 4 of a blocker, and we will hopefully be unveiling it this week at Alamo...this mod is specifically based on something we noticed about 1986 at Lubbock, so if we run into them at champs, we will hopefully give them a pretty good headache

Originally Posted by SharonO

I am willing to bet there are a few teams competing in Oklahoma this weekend that would love to know your planned strategy for shutting down 1986. I know we would have used that knowledge in KC a few weeks ago to turn the outcome of just one semi-final game.

We'll have to keep an eye on Alamo. Hopefully our neighbors (1987) will take a little video for us to review. All short shooters are susceptible to similar defensive strategies, even more so if they have a limited number of sweet spots to shoot from. Our drivers are training for this. Maybe Oklahoma will help us sharpen those defense evasion skills.

[2789_B_Garcia]

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Y'all were great to work with and did and excellent job blocking 2468s full court shot. It got us into the finals where we ran up against 1986... not much we could do about them.

Thanks, Jefferson! ...and just so you know, 2789 is working on version 4 of a blocker, and we will hopefully be unveiling it this week at Alamo...this mod is specifically based on something we noticed about 1986 at Lubbock, so if we run into them at champs, we will hopefully give them a pretty good headache

[SharonO]

Originally Posted by 2789_B_Garcia

Thanks, Jefferson! ...and just so you know, 2789 is working on version 4 of a blocker, and we will hopefully be unveiling it this week at Alamo...this mod is specifically based on something we noticed about 1986 at Lubbock, so if we run into them at champs, we will hopefully give them a pretty good headache

I am willing to bet there are a few teams competing in Oklahoma this weekend that would love to know your planned strategy for shutting down 1986. I know we would have used that knowledge in KC a few weeks ago to turn the outcome of just one semi-final game.

[FrankJ]

There is a discussion in the Peachtree thread from about 70 on about this very thing. One of the robots got modified during a finals timeout. Upshot of this is a re inspection can be as simple as grabbing an inspector an showing him what you are doing. It is up to the inspector to decide the level of reinspection required.

Anything that is part of the robot at the beginning of the competition is supposed to be inspected. The advantage of presenting mechanisms not installed but may be at the initial inspection is you can take them on & of at will without having the robot reinspected. If the robot changes appearance substantially, you might want to let the Referees know that the mechanisms were inspected though.

If you recall the minibots in logomotion went from all sorts to 1-2 designs in less that a week. Of course they were not required to be bagged.

[karomata]

I don't think that it is that big of a problem. It helps complete the design process because teams see their robots in action, realize its major faults, and correct them. It also helps the game itself progress because it causes almost like an arms race to create the ultimate robot design.

1511 at the Finger Lakes Regional lacked many important driver aids and a working climber. Though modification and prototying on a practice robot, they added a photon cannon, modified climber, improved debug software, and I believe a few other things as well. They then went on to win the Boston Regional. Had they not been able to modify their robot at all, they would have been stuck in the same position the whole season as they were at FLR.

[fsgond]

I hate to say it but I think adding items are allowed. The main reason that I hate to see it is because our full court shooter was shut down late Friday into Saturday when people caught wind that we could do it. The rule states that the modifications must still be within the rule. The field ref does have the right to call for your robot to be reinspected at any time. Also if you were to follow the rule to the letter, you would need to be reinspected every time you added a screw that was not there during initial inspection. In reality we all add items to the robot in good faith that they are following the rules and do not call inspectors over for every little thing.