Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

[CLandrum3081]

I have to respectfully disagree (to a point). Minnesota 10K Lakes has 63 teams. "ROBOT" is the only thing that gets people to move, and if you do anything else, other teams accuse you of trying to take their leg off, even with other people walking ahead and saying "excuse me".

Sorry, but in the 10K pits, you have to yell for the person next to you to hear what you're saying. We have no choice but to yell "ROBOT". Smaller events are easier - Northern Lights, with about 40 teams, had no one yelling "ROBOT" because it wasn't necessary.

Would I prefer if we didn't have to do it in order to not be yelled at by others while coming through? Heck yeah. But there's too many people in the pit - and yelling is the only thing that gets anyone's attention without taking ten minutes to get through ten feet. It's that packed in there. I'm so glad I'm not on drive team this year.

I want to end the shouting too - once out of the pits and in the hall, the yelling stops. Perhaps when we're in the pits, we don't listen and somehow think standing in the walkway until we're screamed at is a good idea.

For certain regionals, the shouting can't end until certain other things change, too.

Yelling robot is rude. But teams at 10K seem to think not yelling it is even more rude.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

Maybe it's just a Michigan thing, but the pits seem to be kind of a hang out area for almost 50% of the teams here in my area, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get from point A to point B in a timely matter without this practice. Heck, I have difficulty navigating the pits as an individual!

I propose that the solution to overcrowded pit areas is not to add to the noise and chaos, but to reduce it.

8) It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason - this statement assumes "for no apparent reason", which has yet to be proven. And if useful, this chain reaction is a good thing.
9) With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning - no it doesn't. If I yell robot, then get out of the way; here comes a robot! If robotless people yelled robot, THEN it would lose its meaning.

The chain reaction complaint doesn't assume no apparent reason, it observes one. Someone who is not accompanying a robot has no apparent reason to be shouting ROBOT! at all. The chain reaction isn't useful precisely because robotless people are yelling and making it lose its meaning.

11) It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way - well they should. GP? We got a match and need to get somewhere and you don't. If you need to get somewhere with your robot, then we shouldn't be in you way either.

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

TLDR; yelling robot tells everyone around you that you and your robot is coming and they need to get out of the way ASAP. Exactly what it's supposed to do, in the most efficient manner possible.

The big failure with that is that you don't need to tell everyone around you that they need to get out of the way. You only need to tell the people who are in your way. The most efficient way to do that is to walk ahead of the robot and ask them to move. A general shout of ROBOT! doesn't give a good indication of which way you're trying to go, and doesn't help people clear the path you want to take.

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

I cannot believe I am actually reading a thread dedicated to this. This is by far one of the most ridiculous proposals I have ever heard, and to top that off, I can't believe that so many people are in favor of it!

Here is my rebuttal:
1) It's not necessary - go to a crowded Costco or grocery store and see how many people yell "shopping cart"
2) It's arrogant - Yelling robot is blatantly saying that you want people to move instead of you, the right thing is to give the person the opportunity to decide to be polite and move out of their own kindness.
3) It's obnoxious - Don't even think of comparing this to yelling "fire", a robot is not going to be that dangerous, besides one should be control of one robot, again got to a grocery store and observe this. The robot on a cart is not that important, thus yelling "robot" is obnoxious
4) It's rude - most people do not appreciate getting yelled in ear. If you have to at least say "excuse me."
5) It creates excessive noise. - music in the pits is a hinderance, especially when you are try to hear a air leak. This does not excuse rude behavior.
6) It startles bystanders - so most of us are elementary school children? Again most people will be startled when yelled at.
7) It turns off the general public - i have guests comment negatively a lot. That because no other industry behaves this way, except maybe rock concerts and security at rock concerts don't have a sterling reputations (technically a broad spectrum of fantastic to intolerable actions).
8) It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason - I lost count how many time people yell "robot" after the robot has past. No one needs an entire team to yell when one person would be enough and that person should at lease say "excuse me."
9) With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning - I am ignoring it, my team is ignoring it, my guests are learning to ignore it because its yelled so frequently and often without a robot near us.
10) It does little to make anyone safer in any way, and may even create a hazard - see 9.
11) It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way - everyone has their own priorities, yelling to show yours is more important is rude. Again you have to let others decide that you have greater priority, denying that shows that you don't care what they think, you just want them to move and thats rude in my opinion.

I really do think quieter pits would fix this. I really like pits in separate buildings even if its a hike to get where you are going.

[jar24]

at one competition I went to watch they told the teams to tap on the shoulder of people and ask them to move, people do NOT like to be touched, also there are large groups of people and most of the time (from my 4 years of being on a FIRST Team) don't move unless you are forward about it, and also yelling ROBOT gives everyone ahead a heads up that they need to move out of the way. A lot of the people in the pits Even more so on Saturdays than Friday's the public are in the pits looking at the robots and they don't know anything that's going on, but the yelling of ROBOT gets their attention so they are able to move out of your way so that you can get through without having to stop for every single person that is staining in the isle way

[jar24]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

I cannot believe I am actually reading a thread dedicated to this. This is by far one of the most ridiculous proposals I have ever heard, and to top that off, I can't believe that so many people are in favor of it!

Maybe it's just a Michigan thing, but the pits seem to be kind of a hang out area for almost 50% of the teams here in my area, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get from point A to point B in a timely matter without this practice. Heck, I have difficulty navigating the pits as an individual!

I agree with you here in Michigan if you don't yell robot it will take you 10 minutes just to get to queuing or from the field to your pit just to get through the crowed of people

[Kevin_Morris]

It is silly that this petition exists... but I'm in complete favor of it.

My team has never yelled "robot" while on our way to a match. If there are people in our way, typically an "Excuse us!" works fairly well.

As a tactician who is typically always in the pit walking around or talking to different teams, I find it a fairly annoying practice. With so many teams that don't do it that successfully get to matches on time, I find it hard to believe people are able to find arguments to support it. Then again, this is hardly worth arguing about period, or writing a post much longer than this one in regards to it. Life goes on.

[BHS_STopping]

In Arizona, whenever we were pushing our robot around we would just have somebody about 10 feet in front saying "Excuse us, we're moving our robot." People would generally react far faster and act less surprised this way.

To be perfectly honest, I feel like condoning shouting by rowdy teenagers is something we should just not do. It just does not encourage an air of professionalism.

[GaryVoshol]

A girl was leading her team down the hall yesterday yelling "Robot" with no one anywhere nearby. As we finally passed each other, I asked her who she was yelling at.

And no, not all safety inspectors tell teams that they must yell "Robot". I was eating with a few of them last week and it came up - and they definitely did not encourage it.

I'm not going to sign a petition to ban the yelling of "Robot". But I will remind people of the story of the boy who cried "Wolf". Another example is the highway signs that tell you for several miles that a lane is closed, yet when you get to the site it's wide open. Yell "Robot" too much - which I believe is the case - and it just becomes more of the background noise and gets ignored. It no longer has any effectiveness.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

At the events in Michigan I attended, they were almost requiring us to yell robot, which definitely is a change from the past.

If this happens at the FIRST in Michigan State Championship, someone please come find me. As the Volunteer Coordinator, I can quietly and politely talk to the Safety Advisers to make sure that we're not requiring teams this of teams.

Shouting loud noise over more loud noise does NOT help people listen more. Two quick stories:

At Troy District this weekend the pits are in a completely different room than the field. It's a pretty chill event, the music is not too loud and there is PLENTY of space for teams to get through when queuing for their matches. And yet, teams are yelling, "ROBOT!" at the top of their lungs.

What happens is that when LOTS of people yell the same thing, you start to naturally just not hear them. Which makes for a MORE dangerous situation. My response, once I notice them yelling, is usually, "'Excuse me,' works much better. Please don't yell at me."

To put it in perspective:
The Boilermaker Regional has pits, field and stands all in one big giant room that echoes. In my ten years of participating in FIRST it was the LOUDEST event that I ever attended. The music was insanely loud. The crowd was cheering like crazy all weekend. And the pits had power tools working constantly.
Not ONE team at BMR yelled "ROBOT!"
Indiana hospitality, I suppose. I saw teams walking through pits with robots carefully, always saying, "Excuse me," if someone was in their way, and here's the kicker: NO ONE got hurt.

I have never heard of anyone saving someone from injury by shouting, "ROBOT!" in their ear.

[Tetraman]

Is an email being written to FIRST headquarters? Because otherwise this thread is going to do nothing. I guarantee that the vast majority of teams that shout "robot" do not visit CD and/or are just following trends they picked up from other teams or what they are being told.

[bulbajackel]

Originally Posted by Mark Sheridan

Here is my rebuttal:
1) It's not necessary - go to a crowded Costco or grocery store and see how many people yell "shopping cart"
2) It's arrogant - Yelling robot is blatantly saying that you want people to move instead of you, the right thing is to give the person the opportunity to decide to be polite and move out of their own kindness.
3) It's obnoxious - Don't even think of comparing this to yelling "fire", a robot is not going to be that dangerous, besides one should be control of one robot, again got to a grocery store and observe this. The robot on a cart is not that important, thus yelling "robot" is obnoxious
4) It's rude - most people do not appreciate getting yelled in ear. If you have to at least say "excuse me."
5) It creates excessive noise. - music in the pits is a hinderance, especially when you are try to hear a air leak. This does not excuse rude behavior.
6) It startles bystanders - so most of us are elementary school children? Again most people will be startled when yelled at.
7) It turns off the general public - i have guests comment negatively a lot. That because no other industry behaves this way, except maybe rock concerts and security at rock concerts don't have a sterling reputations (technically a broad spectrum of fantastic to intolerable actions).
8) It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason - I lost count how many time people yell "robot" after the robot has past. No one needs an entire team to yell when one person would be enough and that person should at lease say "excuse me."
9) With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning - I am ignoring it, my team is ignoring it, my guests are learning to ignore it because its yelled so frequently and often without a robot near us.
10) It does little to make anyone safer in any way, and may even create a hazard - see 9.
11) It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way - everyone has their own priorities, yelling to show yours is more important is rude. Again you have to let others decide that you have greater priority, denying that shows that you don't care what they think, you just want them to move and thats rude in my opinion.

I really do think quieter pits would fix this. I really like pits in separate buildings even if its a hike to get where you are going.

Let me address this simply, why do you think its rude? I see if its rude if you seen a team yell if the walkways are clear... but in most cases theres a minority doing that.

Second problem: can we say Bill of Rights violation? The word robot hasn't harmed you or anyone in any way, allowing organizations to limit our speech will do a lot more.

I wish more FIRST volunteers were here to comment but they prefer robot because it is the fastest way, even if a team is late getting to the field. Honestly, they do have greater priority of other people, its not the team that thinks that, its whoever created the match sequence.


All who thinks this petition is moot say "I"

Edit: To the many people who say they are ignoring the word intentionally: you are the problem, honestly, we wouldn't need to say it if you weren't in the way and the fact that you aren't going to move on purpose is arrogant and shouldn't be done

[billylo]

Suggestions to team leaders, experienced roboteers, mentors:

1. Coach our younger members to use common sense. Speak in appropriate volume with courtesy.

2. Use humor if you do need to be loud. It will dissolve misunderstandings. I love some of the creative ideas mentioned in this thread.

3. Do it with a smile on your face and look at the people you are trying to get their attention.

Lead by example... And our next generation will follow...

[iVanDuzer]

I hope you don't mind - I'm going to switch the order of your arguments so mine make more sense.

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

Second problem: can we say Bill of Rights violation? The word robot hasn't harmed you or anyone in any way, allowing organizations to limit our speech will do a lot more.

Can we not get into the whole Bill of Rights thing? I fail to see how asking people to not yell at each other is a violation of your rights. You're asked not to yell in school - are your teachers oppressing your rights? You're asked to not yell in a courtroom - is the judge oppressing your rights? Maybe we should all just walk around yelling because HEY, WE HAVE FREE SPEECH AND CAN THEREFORE SAY ANYTHING WE WANT!

No. Free Speech (in Canada) is a thing because we feel it's important to be able to express one's opinions. Free Speech does not give you an excuse to annoy other people for no reason. It does not give you an excuse to be (quoting Woodie Flowers) an incompetent jerk. Why am I using this term? Well...

Let me address this simply, why do you think its rude? I see if its rude if you seen a team yell if the walkways are clear... but in most cases theres a minority doing that.

Sure, Free Speech says that you CAN yell at people to get out of your way at the supermarket. There might be plenty of people clogging up the aisle, and all you need is a cake for your sister's birthday party that's starting NOW. You were supposed to pick it up earlier, but stuff got in the way, and now you're late. Does this mean it's not rude to yell at people to get out of your way so you can pick up this cake?

No, you're being an incompetent jerk. Incompetent because if you picked up the cake earlier, you wouldn't have had this problem. A jerk because now you're yelling at other people. It's very rarely socially acceptable to yell at anyone, regardless of what you're yelling. In the pits: You're being incompetent because, as several very successful teams have noted, you don't NEED to yell "ROBOT." You're being a jerk because, even though you don't need to, you CHOOSE to. I frankly don't care if your team is heading off to a match. If I'm in my pit, I don't want to hear that.

----

In Montreal, there was a team that celebrated each victory by parading their entire team through the pits, making noise and blocking aisles. One time they were blocking my team from queuing for a match. I politely tapped one of them on the shoulder, motioned to the robot, said "Pardon." ... And this whole huge francophone team (Je ne parle pas francais) moved. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that you don't need to yell to make your way through a crowd. People understand that you need to get to matches. If you let them know (politely) what you're doing, they'll get out of your way.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

I personally find the yelling of ROBOT as tradition.

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

Yelling "excuse me!" may be seen as rude to certain people and yelling robot appears as it has been included in the FIRST culture.

Originally Posted by Camren

Here is why I enjoy the yelling of robot
-Creative
-Spirited
- If done correctly parts a sea of bystanders in one shout

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

The culture of yelling robot came about the same time teams started actively pursuing the safety award.

Originally Posted by Kyle A

Consider me signed too! When I started robotics in 2004 no one yelled robot, maybe every once in awhile with a large group but you never heard it. My senior year in 2007 is when I heard teams starting to use it. It was new and kind of got on peoples nerves but we just let it happen. Now a days I know for we I hear it yelled so often I kind of just tune it out.

I keep seeing it mentioned that "ROBOT!" has become a tradition in FRC for some. It wasn't always that way; I personally don't remember it on a large scale until our regional and the championship in 2007. As Adam and Kyle noted the practice really didn't start until the safety award was created in 2005, and I believe it came about as a way of teams trying to set themselves apart from the rest for their safety practices. I definitely recall that years teams were offering up "robot escorts" that would would walk with other teams and shout robot for them to help them get through the pits. I also recall that some "robot escorts" would do this without asking, and I remember as part of the drive team that year telling them to go away because they weren't helpful (or sometimes yelling it, in a less-than-kind tone. Being on the drive team is stressful ).

There was a lot of complaints about the "ROBOT!" practice back in 2007 too, but the same arguments on both sides were presented then and the practice didn't die. At this point I think it's too late to stop it unless an outright ban was placed on it (which I don't want to see either). None of the drive teams I've been apart of have ever used it and we never had a problem getting around the pits, but I can see how it has become tradition for some, and at this point I think I will just have to accept it (much like how "We graciously accept" has become a tradition that irks many). If you do shout it as you come by though don't expect me to tell you what a good, safe job you're doing navigating the pits, and if safety inspectors start requiring this practice at a regional I attend I'm going to have a nice long discussion with one (or more) of them about why we won't be doing it.

[class1234567]

Why does it matter? At the end of the day the competition will still be running if people are yelling robot ,or politely asking people to move.