Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

[Siri]

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

I wish more FIRST volunteers were here to comment but they prefer robot because it is the fastest way, even if a team is late getting to the field. Honestly, they do have greater priority of other people, its not the team that thinks that, its whoever created the match sequence.

Really? Thus far you have heard from: two former FIRST Senior Mentors, at least one volunteer coordinator, and I count at least 8 other volunteers (plus me now). That's over 17% of the commentors on this thread, and (like the vast majority of other commentors) none of us agree that it's universally preferable.

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

Let me address this simply, why do you think its rude? I see if its rude if you seen a team yell if the walkways are clear... but in most cases theres a minority doing that.

The majority of the people who hear you yelling at a disruptive level are actually, actively in your way? Wow. That's a ridiculously big problem in and of itself. In the 7 years that I've been the vanguard of our cart, I've never had to ask more than maybe 1 in 15 of the people who would hear me yell "robot" to please move out of the way. In virtually every pit layout I can imagine, the vast majority of people who hear you yell are not impeding your movement--yelling merely creates more chaos and annoys people who don't actually have to move.


Personally, my first priority is to get the Green Shirts to stop ordering and/or rewarding teams to yell "robot" regardless of who is or is not in their way. Between that and putting an end to overflowing pits (including sometimes our own), much of this issue and others would become less obtrusive.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by class1234567

Why does it matter? At the end of the day the competition will still be running if people are yelling robot ,or politely asking people to move.

Are you honestly asking whether or not it's better to be polite than to yell?

It matters because what we're trying to celebrate isn't supposed to be based on force or loudness or entitlement. It's supposed to be based on inspiration and professionalism and grace.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by class1234567

Why does it matter? At the end of the day the competition will still be running if people are yelling robot ,or politely asking people to move.

I have heard of people just about getting run over by robots--their pushers shouted "ROBOT!", but apparently didn't bother to wait for the path to clear. The risk of injury goes up when people treat the yell of robot as a "I have priority, get the $^%# out of my way!" yell, and others don't know about it.

I'm with Donut on this; from my time as a student, I only remember it at the Championship (and then only from one particular team's robot escorts). The next year (2008), I was at an event with probably the tightest pits these teams had ever seen--no yells of ROBOT. 2009 and 2010, at the regionals I went to? Maybe once or twice. 2013? I heard 3-4 different teams using it, even when there was nobody in the way (and even those teams had their lead elements saying it, not their pushers screaming it).



As far as people not liking to be touched (something that somebody in favor of YELLING ROBOT pointed out), I would put the touch as the second method of getting attention. Now, a quick tap on the shoulder, most people won't mind too badly, especially if it's followed by an explanation. The first method is to say "Excuse us, we need to bring a robot through"; if they don't pay attention, tap them to get their attention, then repeat.



The real reason why the yelling is dangerous, though, goes far beyond just the competition. It goes YEARS down the road, somewhere you younguns haven't quite seen yet. The yelling increases the overall decibel (dB) level of the competition. In general, higher dB levels have shorter times you can hear them without losing hearing. Yep, you heard me right, losing hearing. (What? you ask--read that again.) In fact, if the volume level is over a certain amount, you're supposed to put on hearing protection--at my work, I'm wearing earplugs about every other day, if not more often, due to the loud noises that can happen with or without warning. What we're trying to do is to bring down some of the overall level so that we don't have to bring as many ear protection devices to hear longer. If you don't wear your earplugs in noisy environments when you're young, you'll be wearing them in quiet environments when you're older, but they'll be called hearing aids then.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

I wish more FIRST volunteers were here to comment but they prefer robot because it is the fastest way, even if a team is late getting to the field. Honestly, they do have greater priority of other people, its not the team that thinks that, its whoever created the match sequence.

I was a student for four years, a volunteer for four (overlaps student and mentor years), and a mentor for six. I dislike yelling it because it's unnecessary, has an air of arrogance about it, and it's entirely possible to get to the field when late without yelling it or injuring people in the pits.

Originally Posted by CLandrum3081

Sorry, but in the 10K pits, you have to yell for the person next to you to hear what you're saying. We have no choice but to yell "ROBOT". Smaller events are easier - Northern Lights, with about 40 teams, had no one yelling "ROBOT" because it wasn't necessary.

There are a lot of people here that seemingly take it as an immutable fact of life that the competitions are horrifically loud. By no means will they ever be a library, but they are currently much louder than they need to be.

They are often so loud, that I wear normal 30 dB earplugs, and can still hear all announcements just fine. In fact, I can usually hear people's conversations just fine, because they're usually yelling to be heard over the music and announcements.

Checking the volume levels with dB meters often shows they are way over the threshold at which hearing damage occurs. And it's not because of the tools (I worked in a machine shop during college, and you can usually have a normal conversation with an indoor voice in there when all the machines were running), it's the music and announcements; they are unnecessarily loud.

This level of noise pollution is a genuine safety issue that I believe needs to be resolved, because it is slowly causing permanent injury to long-term partipants in FRC.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

The Boilermaker Regional has pits, field and stands all in one big giant room that echoes. In my ten years of participating in FIRST it was the LOUDEST event that I ever attended. The music was insanely loud. The crowd was cheering like crazy all weekend. And the pits had power tools working constantly.
Not ONE team at BMR yelled "ROBOT!"

Two teams did while I was within earshot on Thursday morning. Both of them were quickly reminded that having a team member or two in front of the robot to clear the way would work better with less disruption to the rest of the teams. Since I didn't hear it again, I assume they found that the advice was correct.

Underwriter Laboratories (UL) assigns the Lead Safety Advisor for FRC Regionals. Who would be a good person at UL to talk about robot cart transit practices?

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Checking the volume levels with dB meters often shows they are way over the threshold at which hearing damage occurs. And it's not because of the tools (I worked in a machine shop during college, and you can usually have a normal conversation with an indoor voice in there when all the machines were running), it's the music and announcements; they are unnecessarily loud.

This level of noise pollution is a genuine safety issue that I believe needs to be resolved, because it is slowly causing permanent injury to long-term partipants in FRC.

This would be a good place in the thread for one our safety folks to chime in. What is currently being done to monitor noise levels? Anything?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

This level of noise pollution is a genuine safety issue that I believe needs to be resolved, because it is slowly causing permanent injury to long-term partipants in FRC.

Eh? Sorry, could you please repeat that, I couldn't quite hear you.

[jmiller18]

Yell "Scrap Metal" instead, it the same thing as "break a leg" in theater. Not really it would just be hilarious

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by bulbajackel

Let me address this simply, why do you think its rude? I see if its rude if you seen a team yell if the walkways are clear... but in most cases theres a minority doing that.

Second problem: can we say Bill of Rights violation? The word robot hasn't harmed you or anyone in any way, allowing organizations to limit our speech will do a lot more.

Please read my post more carefully, i am starting to loose track of what people are saying too .

Let me elaborate, the polite thing to do is to give people the opportunity to make their own decision. Say for example I am running late for a match, however my path is blocked by a team taking pictures. I would say, "excuse me, can I get through? I am late for my match." Then they can decide for themselves if they have priority, if they are polite, they would have determine that me and the robot could squeeze through. However there are scenarios where a team may choose not to move for me. My choice is not the scream "robot" but to say "excuse me, I am late, can you please move." Ultimately, in this scenario, we could both be rude about it but i would rather be the polite one. If I was returning to the pit, I might even wait.

The idea is to give people the opportunity to be think about it and make the right decision. Sort of how the fast lane is suppose to work, where the slower car yields to the faster car. Good luck getting rid of the "tradition" of the slow car in the fast lane. It appears we are stuck with it as a lasting symbol of americana *

Back to the point of the 1st amendment, as you pointed out and i mentioned before, a ban won't work. However I object to the mandatory practice of saying "robot" that occurred at the IE regional (see sand drag 1st post). You can say whatever you want. I am just going to call you rude when you say, "robot."

*sarcasm

[Brandon Holley]

Blindly shouting robot is nothing but plain laziness.

Use some effort, take some initiative and clear the people out of the way that are actually in the path of the robot. Do this by politely saying "Excuse us" or tapping them on the shoulder with the same statement.

You've got my support.

As Professor Farnsworth would say "Good news everybody - you're not that guy." An aisle is a path between fixed obstacles, such as between seats on a plane or between rows of pillars or columns.

My proposal is more like adding lane markings to a road.

[Foster]

There is something appealing about giving a team a small bicycle bell for their robot cart.

As a mentor, I never try to never miss a teaching moment. So the appropriate response is to move and stand in the path of the oncoming "ROBOT", then point (use the double thumb motion) and say (using your inside voice) "MENTOR" You can then discuss with them on how to move the robot safely and sanely to their destination. And maybe help them out.

No so much in favor of this petition, but happy to sign the one forcing people to use common sense at all times.

[kjohnson]

Click here to sign the petition There is no need to enter your address when signing.

This way we can keep track of who supports this and submit an actual petition to FIRST.

[Negative 9]

I agree that it's annoying, but sometimes it's just the easiest way to get people who are obnoxiously clogging up the lanes in between pits out of your way.

[lcoreyl]

For those that disagree with the OP or petition:

please read them again. Here's the relevant parts:

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I take serious issue with one of the mandated practices they have imposed on all competing teams.

The safety inspectors are requiring all teams to loudly yell "ROBOT!"

(emphasis mine AND his)

This thread has taken a few tangents, but IMO, the intent is NOT to decide what the new mandated behavior will be, or to actually BAN the use of [loud]ROBOT!!![/loud]

The point is to get rid of the mandates and incentives by safety officials regarding this behavior.

hmmm, I wonder if I could have made the same point in a regular size font?

Also, the use of the word loud in this thread has been very ambiguous and it's entirely possible people are just talking past each other.

I haven't even had my regional yet, and don't recall if this has ever been required in CO, but I certainly don't want to be a part of it.

so to anyone in CO next week: feel free to yell, and I'll feel free to be annoyed. I'll be instructing my team to use the PVT: the polite vanguard technique (Alan--want to split the trademark on this phrase? We'll be RICH!).