Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

To be fair it's often parents who want to come down too the pits as well. I remember at GTR West one year I saw a team of 30 just covering the pit aisle with 30 people including a baby in a carriage.It's as if they had no concept there were other teams in the pits with them.

It's always awkward asking parents to leave the area when they just want to see what their son or daughter has been working on for the past 6-8 weeks...but it's also really necessary. "Pit browsing" should be encouraged for all visitors but not clogging up one area.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

To be honest if you want to make a petition how about one to have people stop clogging up the pits using it as a social club and stop blocking the entrances and exits which is equally rude and obnoxious and a fire hazard?

Here in lies the problem I feel. My team wouldn't have to yell robot (or say "excuse me" if that's what you really prefer) if their team wasn't standing where it shouldn't be, in the pit road.
Honestly I see no difference between "Robot" and "Excuse me my robot is coming through" except for the unnecessary length of the second one. "Robot" is crisp, concise, and gets your point across quickly that there is a potentially dangerous and heavy mobile object moving in your direction and to be alert (the world needs more lerts).

As to the practice of announcing you robot in less filled areas: there are a number of teams in my area that are in the practice of walling off their pit (with shelves or totes or use a tent), so that unless you are directly in front, you can't see in or out of it. There's no telling is someone is going to come barreling out at any moment into your robot transit team (which I HAVE seen on occasion when "robot" was not announced). Same goes for adjacent hallways and rooms. Preemptive announcement is much better and safer than running the risk of collision. I have no control over what other team's members do, but I do control what my team does. If you find it annoying that I let you know every time when my robot is passing your pit, you'll just have to take one for the team, so to say.

As to the use of robot declaration, it should ALWAYS be the person leading the robot train (who is at LEAST a handful of feet in front of the robot cart) and NEVER the person pushing the robot cart. That gives people more time to react.

I find it actually kind of funny the disparity I see in the pits; of the 4 competitions I've been to the past 2 years, the overwhelming majority of pits (75%+) have either more people in them than they should, or the pit is completely empty (everyone is at/to/from the field). Not sure which one is worse.

[Alexa Stott]

I CAN'T STAND WHEN PEOPLE YELL "ROBOT." IT'S RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS AND, HONESTLY, MANY OF ITS DEFENDERS IN THIS THREAD ARE ONLY REINFORCING THAT POINT.

AND TO WHOEVER POSTED THAT DISCOURAGING PEOPLE FROM YELLING IS A BILL OF RIGHTS VIOLATION--YES, YOU ARE MORE OR LESS ALLOWED TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT; YOU'RE ALSO ALLOWED TO HAVE YOU AND YOUR TEAM COME OFF AS A BUNCH OF RUDE, ARROGANT KIDS.

[CENTURION]

I see what you're trying to get at with the "yelling" text Alexa, but it's a bit of a different situation when you're in a loud, crowded pit area.

I get the feeling that the different ideas about whether it's "rude" or not just have to do with the local cultures that attend those regionals.

In WI, I've never heard anyone talk about calling "Robot" as "rude" (Can't say I've taken a survey or anything though)

Then again, in the midwest, we sometimes say "yeah" in place of "you're welcome", and from what I've heard, that's considered offensive and rude in other parts of the country.

I don't think this is something that should be decided on a whole-organization level. Maybe each regional can decide for itself?

In any case, we're no strangers to FIRST culture, we know that the person yelling "ROBOT!" is not trying to be rude, or offensive, or obnoxious, they're probably just trying to be safe.

[Sam390250]

Wisconsin Regional Safety Officials were requiring teams to do this, and it was very obnoxious.

Incident with our team, one of the drivers was politely saying, "Excuse us, we need to get through" while pushing the robot. One of the safety officials was in the way and said, "I am not moving until you loudly shout 'Robot!'". This is clearly unnecessary and is forcing/encouraging students to be obnoxious. It also makes the pit a tense and more stressful place than it already is.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by theanimal160

As the man pushing our robot around at the STL Regional, yes, having to yell EXCUSE ME ROBOT COMING THROUGH was on the way to and from every single match. There were two or three times when it was clear, and the only notable time I can remember the pit lanes being truly empty was after the last match of the finals.

This doesn't answer my question. Of the people who hear you yell "excuse me, robot coming through", how many of them are actually in a position that impedes your travel or risks their safety? Unless your definition of yelling is very different from the dB standard, if this is greater than say 10%, the pits are way, way, way too crowded. This causes numerous other safety issues which are not addressed--and are in fact compounded--by the yelling to which you refer.

The aisles don't need to be empty for polite, inside voice, requests to work. Anything but. In fact, they can be quite crowded. I probably ask 20 people to move every time we queue, and it still goes faster than yelling robot to 10x more people than actually need to move--the latter is desensitizing, so people who are actually in the way react more slowly and must maneuver in a now more entropic situation. Now, overcrowdedness poses numerous problems, but yelling is more an attempt to mask the symptoms than address the cause.

Originally Posted by CENTURION

Robots often may have protruding arms or elements that (while inside the frame perimeter of course) may still hit people who thought they were out of the way. If you direct your warnings only to the people in front of you, who are in your way, people on the sides of you may not be looking out for you.

I'm trying to imagine how this is possible. Does your robot overhang your cart or have an abnormal shape, etc? How can someone think their out of the way while being inside the frame perimeter?

[Nemo]

I completely agree.

I pasted this link into the Week 5 event survey. Somebody should send this thread to Underwriter's Laboratory and FIRST brass. Anybody got connections? If they got on board, they could simply tell all of the event organizers to push this concept in the future.

[Mike Copioli]

Having "ROBOT" screamed at me makes me want to stand my ground rather than move. Just like when someone behind me at a traffic light lays on there horn, it makes me want to turn on my hazard lights, pop the hood, get out of the car and start fiddling around with the engine.

It is irritating, unnecessary and a point of contention every year. I had someone deliberately walk in front of our robot yesterday, while looking right at us. When I said excuse me the response was, "You are supposed to yell robot".

Wow. Some people just do not have common sense.

Tell me where to sign.

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by Flak-Bait

I accidentally the verb.


Also, at busy regionals, the only thing that works is yelling "robot". Quite simply, tapping people on the shoulder and saying "excuse me" doesn't work.

and so how does robot work any better? Tapping on the shoulder at least makes sense if the person was facing away and doesn't see the robot coming. And how does yelling help a deaf person at all?

Personally, I have always found it irritating/ironic/amusing that it would be deemed necessary to warn me that there were robots when robots were specifically the reason for the event. As if I didn't expect them!

It's one thing to use a warning when the situation calls for it, but so much of this we see at regionals - the florescent vests, the flashing lights, the batons and wand flashlights - is all show intended to win an award. Carrying it to the extreme that we now see has the opposite effect and dilutes the message by numbing us to the actual safety practice.

[Ian Curtis]

I was surprised to hear that from the safety folks as well. I thought we had been through this a few years ago (maybe it was just on CD?) and the consensus was the smart thing to do was just be polite and ask people to move. Of course, people would still yell "ROBOT!" just like they say "Graciously Accept" when that could be interpreted to be a backhanded insult. (Props to the one team at Seattle that said "Gratefully")

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

At the events in Michigan I attended, they were almost requiring us to yell robot, which definitely is a change from the past.

I have more than once raised an eyebrow to things said by some of the Safety Advisors. The ones who are actually from UL are usually pretty good, but I wonder about the qualifications of some of the others.

I worked in industry where I received extensive safety training in things like lockout/tag out, fall protection, rigging safety, confined space entry and rescue, MSDS, and manlift
operation, so I may know a thing or two from the real world about this.

One thing I have learned to appreciate is to never underestimate the ability of bureaucrats to create rules that seem to make sense on paper, but fail miserably out in the real world where we have to live with them.

This falls into that category.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

We unashamedly yelled robot, but we did have a vanguard for some matches. The vanguard worked much better, but some people in the pits didn't move unless we yelled ROBOT. That said, it should not be required to say ROBOT if a vanguard is also present. No safety officials or others mandated yelling ROBOT (I was not present at the safety meeting, but I didn't hear if they mandated it there).

[ebarker]

Where do I sign up ?

When someone yells 'ROBOT'

I want to say "oh look, a robot ! bless your heart"

[Doc Wu]

One last comment from me then I'll shut up.

From my experience, the advance person, or vanguard, is probably the most effective way and is important for getting a robot safely through the crowded aisles.

Whether they yell "robot" or something else, the important thing is that they communicate with the people in the area, including their people guiding their cart. If saying something like "excuse me" or "coming through" or "could you please move a bit" works better because you are communicating your intent, than yelling "robot" because someone says you should, then that's what should be done.

The person should also tell their cart drivers to stop if necessary and help them find a clear path.

Often a lot of the congestion is general public who may need a little more time to integrate what is going on around them and react. A little verbal guidance, more than just yelling "robot" may be necessary.

Other times, the people in front of you may be fully aware of your cart coming, but simply have no safe place to go immediately to get out of the way. You'll just have to be patient and realize that your team is not the only one there with places to go...

I think we all just need to apply some Gracious Professionalism to this issue.

[lcoreyl]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I put it in the public domain a year ago.

nice! Now we need to get the word out!

I recommend that all in favor of the petition, and the use of a vanguard should start actively spreading the word to safety people and other teams. Those that think it is a good idea will follow suit, and those that claim it can't be done won't. My hypothesis is that eventually the loud yelling of robot will just disappear.

the permutations of possible things to say, and the debate of whether or not yelling robot is rude is