2013 Buckeye Regional

[Justin Montois]

I won't speak for my entire team, only my experience. However, I am sure 340 will not be attending the Buckeye Regional in the future.

Last year, our experience with the head referee was not good, but we decided to give it another chance. This year was far worse however. It started for me at the practice day drivers meeting. I had a question about how blockading was going to be called. However to my surprise the Head Ref finished his comments without taking any questions. As he walked off the field, I saw the FTA, who was really good by the way, ask him if he was going to take questions. The FTA then took the mic and informed us that the Head Ref would not be taking questions. I've never seen that happen at any other event. Ever.

Later that same day, I noticed our robot, like at FLR, seemed to find spots of the field that it didn't seem to respond right. I wanted to make the FTA aware of it and see if we could watch our signal strength in the next match to see if it seemed to drop at all. Perhaps this was my mistake, but I decided to walk towards the FTA who was sitting behind the scorers table. I was abruptly stopped by the Head Ref who questioned why I was anywhere near the scorers table. His attitude was abrasive and unprofessional. I explained why I was there and he told me to go to the question box and wait. He proceeded to talk to another referee for a few minuets before letting the FTA know I was there. It was clearly a move by him to try and showcase his authority. It was really a joke to be honest.

And this is all bad calls aside. I understand that mistakes will be made. But it's his attitude that is embarrassing. I want to let all rookies know that most head referees are very pleasant and understanding. They are happy to explain decisions and even apologize if/when a mistake is made.

Being on the field, I heard from several teams that their interactions with him were very negative. He needs to be asked not to come back or the Buckeye regional will quickly become a tough regional to fill.

On a much lighter note, I want to say that I enjoyed spending time with 1126, 1507, 2016, 2252 and 4085. The mentors and students on those teams are awesome and they made a tough event for me a really positive experience.

[Grim Tuesday]

Wow, what an event! Going from not making eliminations in Fingerlakes to being second alliance captain and taking home a blue banner for the first time in 8 years is really an experience to have. I can't wait to redesign our pit to make a place to display it!

There is no doubt in my mind that we could not have won without the help of 2252 and 2834. Watching this alliance play...there was no way to tell the order that they were chosen. In fact, you couldn't even tell who was the alliance captain! Take any one alliance partner out of the equation (which did happen a few times in fact) and we still had an amazing alliance. It was especially nice meeting and celebrating with the drive team of 2252. Also, it was not until we were on the bus ride back that our coach said to me "so how did you like meeting the Ed Law" and I was like wait, "he was the strategist on 2834 with the laptop?". Ed, if you're still reading this thread, I was the guy from 639 who came over and shook your hand right after alliance selections. You guys are the definition of a steal, it was absolutely criminal and unbelievable that 2834 was not picked early in the first round.

Congratulations to Chairmans winner 2016. Watching the entire arena doing the 'silent clap' in honor of your programs to help the deaf was really, really neat and inspiring. You could tell everyone there was just saying themselves: wow these guys absolutely deserve it.

To Engineering Inspiration winner 1629, just wow. If I get a chance at I want to talk more to you guys about your program at Championships, just to learn how we can improve and emulate a team of your caliber.

One interesting fact: 639 (us), 2016, and 1629 all stayed in the same hotel. Walking down to breakfast yesterday morning, who would have known that we would have all won something that qualifies us for Championships!

I want to give my thanks to all the amazing alliances we played against in Eliminations. 1014, 3266, 4269 - you guys were no slouches and I remember thinking "this will be no cakewalk" right before the first quarterfinals.

The semifinals were real nail biters. 1551, 4085, and 1126 gave us some of the most intense matches I've played. Seeing this alliance put up 156 pts in QF4 made me exceedingly scared going into the Semifinals. I honestly would have been completely okay being beaten by an alliance this caliber in the Semis. To address the call made in SF2-2, I will complain about officiating later in this thread but I would like to note that if it had been not made we still would have won 105-104. By the time Eliminations came around, it was clear that 1551 had really earned their seed. 4085 is a scoring machine and 1126 was another second round steal.

To be honest, my least favorite part of the event was the finals. Going in, I thought our alliance had about a 50-50 chance. 1507, 706 and 3260 were a great alliance. 1507 and 706 were scoring machines and 3260 supported them well. I find it a real pity that we couldn't play against the 'real' 1507 as in F1-1 their shooter didn't seem to be completely working. And to have to call in a backup robot for the alliance captain in F2 is a really sad way to end the regional. 4121 was just about as good as backup bots get but I don't think many robots at the event could fill in a hole left by the first alliance captain. I really wish our alliance could have provided you guys with a WildCard but this was all our first championships qualification this season. It was an honor to play against 1507; you guys continue to inspire us every year.

In fact, I think it is one of the greatest pity's in FIRST that there are not enough awards and Champs qualifications to go around. An amazing team won the Engineering Inspiration award but I'm sure our friends on 340 gave them a run for their money. GRR is another team that constantly inspires us and makes us want to do better, both in robot quality and in outreach. I'm really sorry we will not be seeing the orange of Churchville/Chili in St. Louis this year.

Special shout out to 174 for giving us their front and center seats after we got to eliminations and they didn't. The old fingerlakes teams seem to have a special sort of partnership that is never officialized but just exists.

Now for the regional as its self:

Load in was fine and parking was good. The venue was great for spectators viewing wise but awful concessions wise. The only food you could get was greasy and the boxed lunches were not very good (but what can you expect). The biggest issue was the concessions stands running out of food for parents on our team who had not ordered the boxed lunches. It was very odd to have only two stands open and a ton shuttered with a captive audience.

Volunteers as well were a hit or miss. The head judge was one of the nicest people I've ever met but in trying to find the Chairmans presentation room, our presenters were almost directed into the judges room and immediately afterwards told that if they had entered we would have been removed from consideration for any awards.

The field seemed somewhat worse for wear. The goal counters were almost always off (though they got better as the event went on). The pyramids looked like they were going to fall out and wobbled a little bit.

The officiating was not the best, and I agree that there should not have been a tech foul called in SF2-2. I could see Dante, the head ref from FLR wearing a SparX shirt getting absolutely livid about some of the calls made at this event and I completely agree with him. Our teams run in with the head ref and field personal happened between the finals and semifinals; there should have been a field timeout called because we were playing back to back matches, instead we were forced to use our coupon so two robots on our alliance could make repairs. We also got a weird penalty for 'destroying the field' when the carpet just become untaped while we were driving over it.

Announcer JonDarr was amazing as usual but the announcer on Thursday was insulting and unprofessional. His embarrassing jokes and penchant for making fun of teams that weren't making their shots made me want to miss our practice matches so he wouldn't poke fun at us. If he had continued past lunch we would have lodged a formal complaint with the regional director but it looks like someone else did and he got kicked off. The MC was good but not on the tier of someone like Angry Eric or Karthik. He did what he needed to and got the crowd going but was rather wooden and scripted when introducing teams and giving opening ceremonies.

Pit Admin was really good in general though matches queuing 30 minutes early was somewhat inconvenient. The practice field from my view was fine, though nothing to write home about.

I don't mean any of this as a knock on the volunteers who made this event run smoothly and ahead of schedule for most of the time. It's unfortunate that we end up remembering the bad things that happen and not the things that go perfectly.

Finally, the match schedule was wonky. I know this has nothing to do with the event its self and completely luck but the seeding positions were luck, pure and simple. We were second seed because we coasted through our first four matches with great alliances before getting our robot working and actually winning matches on our own merit. The same thing happened with 1551. Other teams like our partners 2252 and 2834 ended up underseeded due to bad schedules. However, by the end of the event, I think all the top 8 had truly earned their seeds.

Finally, if FTA Paul is reading this thread, we did end up finding out Robot Lockup Form right after we told you we lost it.

Overall, Buckeye was a fun regional but I don't know if we would return to it. The officiating is a major problem. There are certainly some problems that need to be worked out but I hope the planning committee will take all that has been said into consideration and make it better next year.

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

You guys are the definition of a steal, it was absolutely criminal and unbelievable that 2834 was not picked early in the first round.

Can I just say, as soon as you guys picked up 2834, I was dumbfounded. I couldn't even fathom has they had fallen so far in the draft. Props to you guys, Simon, as it tells me you did your homework where others did not.

Congrats on joining the group of Finger Lakes teams who qualified for champs! I look forward to seeing you guys out there!

[Yipyapper]

I felt absolutely awful for SparX and the rest of their alliance in SF2-1 when that foul was called and gave them their first loss. But that tech foul in SF2-2... I just saw the flag and the "x" symbol and everyone on the team just looked at me, wondering what the call was for. I couldn't tell them; I had absolutely no idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they got another foul that round, causing them to lose from the 23 foul points awarded to the other team.

I've had a fondness for SparX since we were at Buckeye with them two years ago. I just find it a shame.

I was, however, very happy to see 2016 become our first pick in alliance selections! I, for one, noticed that their overall OPR wasn't as high as some other available picks, but their vast improvement made them an absolute steal when it came time for us to pick someone. It doesn't hurt that them and 177 were with us in the 2011 world finals; I'm sure James, our driver and member of the drive team for 3 years, was pleased to get reacquainted, along with some other members of the team who got to know a few of them that year. I regret not having met them 2 years ago, even though I had the full capability of speaking to them in St. Louis.

I won't comment on specifics concerning the regional itself, but rest assured I personally won't vote to go to Buckeye ever again. Queen City was fun, but it's unfortunate that it fell on Waterloo this year (again, best event I've ever been to: Waterloo 2013. It's great every year, but this year it was something else).

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Special shout out to 174 for giving us their front and center seats after we got to eliminations and they didn't. The old fingerlakes teams seem to have a special sort of partnership that is never officialized but just exists.

I will pass the shout out along.

About 174, I don't know if anyone really knows the troubles we had this season, but let me just say that with the work the students put in to making the robot work and be as competitive as possible was beyond ANY other year in our history. There hasn't been a group of students like this for us ever and even though we hadn't had any of the kind of success we had last year I would say we discovered more about ourselves and our team.

Team 174 extends a congratulations to 639, 2252 and 2834, to team 2016 and 1629. You were all amazing teams to watch and we wish you all good luck for the rest of the year.

I wasn't at the event, so I have no comment about how the competition was run. What I will say is that if there was a problem, teams should contact the planning committee for Buckeye, rather than only rant about it on CD - otherwise nothing might be changed.

(on a side note, I picked 639 to win FLR in my Pickem show. I guess I get half credit for you guys winning a different regional? )

[ErvinI]

I would like to thank the FTA for his willingness to help clarify any issues. The live scoring seemed to have malfunctioned in our first quarter-final and we wondered how we all of a sudden lost 20 points. We thought somebody forgot to count the coloured discs 3496 scored in the pyramid goal for our alliance. He was willing to look on the score sheet and talk to us to see if there were any goals that were miscounted. Turns out that it was just the live scoring that was wrong. Kudos to the FTA for looking into it!

I would also like to thank 2016 and 3496 for being great teammates. I was on the practice field during alliance selection and was thoroughly surprised when I found out that we were the 6th alliance with a great floor pick-up bot and a consistent climb-and-dumper. We went into our quarter-final matches confident that we had a high chance of winning the regional as a low-seeded alliance. We ended up falling in the quarters however to a strong third seed. That last match was incredibly hectic and exciting, and really could have gone either way depending on how the fouls would have been called. Incredible job on defence, 1126, you guys really made sure to keep us back in your own field!

[eddie12390]

Regarding the quality of the event, I was personally extremely disappointed with a few things in comparison to the event that we have attended in Pittsburgh for the past few years. To start off the event, we ran into a lot of issues with our pit. When we attempted to fit through the door provided for loading in, our pit setup was about a half of an inch too wide to fit through. We were initially told by the security guard stationed at the entrance that we could take our pit through the loading dock and that it would not be an issue. When we arrived at the loading dock, we were berated and yelled at by two of the security guards for a few minutes about how we were in the wrong place and that we had no right to bring our pit down there. Although I realize that they may have not wanted us to use the loading dock, there was no reason at all to be so rude especially when we had just been told by another security guard that it would just fine if we brought our pit in through the loading dock.

As a whole, the staff/volunteers were excellent except for a few people who really had an adverse effect on the overall quality. As multiple people have stated, the head ref was easily one of the rudest people that I have EVER met at any robotics related event. We were not allowed to ask for any clarification on rules and there were multiple instances where it had seemed that he had yet to even read the rule book himself. On Thursday, the announcer insulted our team by saying that teams from Pittsburgh "were not welcome" and then shunned immediately after the match once again for our home location. These were not the only rude comments that we had heard throughout the day and in my opinion the insults that he made went way overboard. It's a shame that a few individuals left such a negative mark on the event for us but it does not seem likely that we will be returning next year.

On a more positive note, I'd like to thank 1507 and 706 for allowing us to be on their Alliance. I'm sorry that our shooter wasn't working correctly, we hadn't had any issues with prior jams and the points that were missing because of our Autonomous not functioning were a clear issue. We really do appreciate you giving us the chance to be on your Alliance and we hope to have the pleasure of being at the same event as you in the future. Congratulations to the winning Alliance of 639, 2252, and 2834. You guys were amazing and all deserve to be in St. Louis. We'd also like to congratulate 1629 on winning Engineering Inspiration and 2016 on winning the Chairman's award. The excellence shone by both of your teams was clear and there was no question in anyone's mind that you guys deserved the awards that you had received.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Yipyapper

I felt absolutely awful for SparX and the rest of their alliance in SF2-1 when that foul was called and gave them their first loss. But that tech foul in SF2-2... I just saw the flag and the "x" symbol and everyone on the team just looked at me, wondering what the call was for. I couldn't tell them; I had absolutely no idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they got another foul that round, causing them to lose from the 23 foul points awarded to the other team.

Is there video of the match in question?

[1629GaCo]

Team 1629 would like to thank 2603, and 3003, for playing with us during the elimination rounds, we were struggling a bit to find the accuracy on our long range shooter, but you guys were able to carry us in the matches.

Congrats to the winning alliance, 639, 2252, 2834, you all had an amazing strategy and it worked out in your favor, great matches, well played!!!

Congrats also go out to 2016 for your Chairmans Award win, you all are an amazing team that every FIRST team should want to emulate.

Now for the bad....

Yes, I will agree, the Head Referee is terrible, it seems that he has gotten worse over the past couple of years. For someone in that position to not allow the students to be able to ask questions concerning the actual RULES posted by FIRST is simply ridiculous. He is very unprofessional, rude, intimidating, and obnoxious. We noticed this a few years ago when we had a question about a match, and we got the same treatment again this year when asking for a rule clarification. I for one will not vote to come back to Buckeye unless they get a different head referee.

The load-in. The load in is ok, except for the fact that you have to use the shipping elevator. Things would go 150% better if you could back up to the dock, load, and leave. I think this is a Cleveland State Rule for whatever reason. I have not liked that since we have been attending the regional.

I will agree with everyone else about the concessions, one stand, no food, and short hours.

The good.....

The rest of the volunteers, the rest of the referees, the emcees, all did an amazing job. Well run, and quite polite.

The judges are always amazing and allow the kids to really demonstrate and tell their story. They are not hurried, and really get into what the kids are talking to them about. Well done judges.

Parking is great and cheap, all close and all seem to allow trailers in their lots.

Overall, the event was fun, but there were a few negatives that can make for a bad experience. If just a few things change, this event will be top notch, if not, it will be a tough fill. Hopefully the people in charge will get the message and make the appropriate decisions!!!

Good Luck to all team in the upcoming regionals, and good luck to all teams participating at the World Championships, we will see you there!

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Deetman

While I am in no way affiliated with the Buckeye Regional, if you had issues such as what I am reading here with a volunteer, I highly suggest you contact the volunteer coordinator for the event. Contact information for Buckeye is on http://www.oai.org/firstbuckeye/volunteers.html

Conduct such as what I've seen described is no way for any volunteer to act, especially in a key position.

With all the posts of "I will vote not to attend" I wanted to echo this. Before making up your mind, send feedback to the VC of the event.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Is there video of the match in question?

The wonderful folks at 3266 are working diligently to get all the matches uploaded. They're up to Q-46. So I imagine some time in the next day or three it'll be on the Tube of Yous.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

The wonderful folks at 3266 are working diligently to get all the matches uploaded. They're up to Q-46. So I imagine some time in the next day or three it'll be on the Tube of Yous.

Psh, I suppose I can wait (are they done yet).

[slickvic2252]

team 2252 is in the process of uploading all of our matches now they should be up soon the match in question will be there as well

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Is there video of the match in question?

Our team took video of all matches we were in (which this one we were). I'll see if I can get them uploaded to Youtube.

I would like to take the time to say, however that it doesn't feel good to win a match due to a penalty. Please understand that it is just as painful for us to see bad officiating on the 'winning' side of it as it was for the teams on the losing side of it.

[synth3tk]

As a volunteer from this year's event, I will pass on some of the remarks. However, I hope that you all will contact the coordinator yourselves to voice your opinions. I'm extremely sorry that some of you have had bad experiences, but I hope that you will try to make the event better instead of simply leaving. That will only hurt the program. It's breaking my heart to see so many teams vowing to never attend the regional over one person.

Regarding the early queuing, I apologize. Pit admin has no control over when to queue people. We're given a list of matches and we call it out. We worked with the queuing volunteers to slow it down eventually.