Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT

[jwallace15]

I sign. Our robot-cart-puller has a real issue with the yelling of "ROBOT!", and I do too. It draws negative attention to your team, as it distracts everyone's attention from what they're doing to just see you pulling a robot.

I was the only one in a hallway, and a robot was being pulled towards me. It was a pretty wide hallway. I was on one side, and they were on the other. Yet they still yelled "ROBOT!" at me!

A simple "Excuse us" will suffice to get someone's attention. Not the obnoxious yelling of "ROBOT!".

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by dcarr

April fools...too bad, just when I thought this thread was going somewhere

Sorry this was all just getting way too heavy for April 1st... and I had to find an excuse to use that video

[lorem3k]

Haven't checked my calendar in a while... thought it was still January. I guess that's why all the due dates for my school work seemed so far off.

[jar24]

So what is the point of even complaining on here? in my fours years apart of FIRST ( correct me if i'm wrong) this site does not affect the actual game manual, or anything in FIRST in that matter so it seems like the logical thing to do would actually complain to someone or somewhere ware you are not just "blowing Smoke"?

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by jar24

So what is the point of even complaining on here? in my fours years apart of FIRST ( correct me if i'm wrong) this site does not affect the actual game manual, or anything in FIRST in that matter so it seems like the logical thing to do would actually complain to someone or somewhere ware you are not just "blowing Smoke"?

Even if FIRST never did anything in response to a discussion on Chief Delphi (which I disagree), I'd argue this thread is still beneficial for many reasons, such as public awareness of the issue, or discussion on the causes of the issue. Teams can now start helping the problem instead of being ignorant of an issue? Seems to me like a good enough reason.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by jar24

So what is the point of even complaining on here? in my fours years apart of FIRST ( correct me if i'm wrong) this site does not affect the actual game manual, or anything in FIRST in that matter so it seems like the logical thing to do would actually complain to someone or somewhere ware you are not just "blowing Smoke"?

On the one hand, the FRC Blog post literally four entries ago directly addressed a concern raised by a single person (maybe a couple, but not many) in mere days after the alliance station lifting ban. (Celebratory hugging--good question) HQ knows we're here.

More importantly in this case, we really don't need HQ to pilot and collect results of alternative methods, whether to initiate grassroots change and/or prepare a constructive letter (again not a new concept). Given that a good many of these issues can be mitigated through help of volunteer coordinators and other event-level officials, not to mention teams, this really is the logical place to start vying for change.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jar24

So what is the point of even complaining on here? in my fours years apart of FIRST ( correct me if i'm wrong) this site does not affect the actual game manual, or anything in FIRST in that matter so it seems like the logical thing to do would actually complain to someone or somewhere ware you are not just "blowing Smoke"?

Au contraire!

The discussions on Chief Delphi are monitored by FRC staff; we know this because quite often a question we CDers are divided on will be addressed early on, sometimes even before Q&A opens. (Also see Frank's "brain in a jar" blog post.) So, we know that what's going on on CD is monitored. A thread like this will at least be looked at, if not acted on. While officially, CD discussions won't affect anything in the game manual or anything else, you can bet that behind the scenes, CD has an effect. (Case in point: the 2011 minibots. TU#1 that year banned a specific class of minibots, better known as "projectiles", despite coming before Q&A opened--there had been a CD thread since Kickoff discussing launching minibots at the targets.)

Second, an official response will do almost nothing except to realign some Safety Advisors' thinking. When is the last time you saw someone observe the "no saving seats" rule? (BTW, I have seen at least one team observe that lately.)

However, that wasn't the point. If public awareness of the issue doesn't reduce the incidences (and increase the number of Safety Advisors whose robot-moving noise requirements are called into question), then maybe it's time to get FIRST to act. But by bringing the issue into the spotlight, more teams are made aware that the shouting of "Robot" is at best annoying and more frequently it's counterproductive. Fewer teams do it. FIRST, the community, can act without FIRST, the organization, acting officially. And when FIRST, the community, acts, they have a much louder presence than FIRST, the organization, just by sheer numbers, though FIRST, the organization, can win by authority of being the organizer and the rule-writers.


Which is why we are trying to bring this issue up.


Oh, and Siri: That text is just about perfect. There might be a few stylistic changes, or spelling/grammar, but those are pretty minor changes if they're even needed.

[cjl2625]

Heh, during my first event, I was so confused as to why everybody kept yelling ROBOT.

You do have a point here... but personally, I'm not really bothered by it.

[toastnbacon]

Is yelling robot rude? No. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. But should it be banned? I think, if nothing else, it's a part of the culture. It's exciting when a robot is coming through! I think the most appropriate response is clapping or cheering, not any mental sarcastic response. Our team has missed enough matches for it to be exciting when we actually do go. I think those who want to have earned the right of yelling robot.

As for the actual practical value of it, it's not the ultimate solution. But I think it has a place. There are those (read: me) who might accidentally run out in front of a robot if they aren't aware of its presence. But I agree that yelling robot does not give you right to crash into those in your way, and too many think it does. I imagine a combination of yelling and vanguard-ing (I hope I used that right) would provide the fastest and safest route.

My point is that trying to talk people out of yelling robot isn't going to work. But instead, educate the idiots out there. Most people don't do the wrong thing intensionally. Tell them how they're messing up, and odds are, they'll fix it. We are, after all, a community of nerds. We didn't get here by doing the stupid or wrong thing.

Also, (because I forgot to work it into my rant) I think mandating the practice of yelling is rediculus. There are clearly those who are strongly opposed, and I think we should respect that.

[Koko Ed]

At a couple of events teams would have Safety Criers escort teams back to the pits to cry "ROBOT!" for them. I wanted one team to yell " Robot Parts! Freshs Robot Parts here!".

[raffi383]

From my understanding we didn't win the safety award at the Detroit event because of an issue we had with one of the safety judges. She stood in the aisle and would not move until we yelled robot. Instead, we walked around her.

Later, she said we bumped her with the robot when we walked around. I don't know if we did or not but after some discussion, I apologized. It didn't matter.

I heard she was the head safety judge at Troy. Hope you guys had fun there. I feel for you.


Someone also mentioned a dB meter. Another sore point with me. This is why we lost out on the safety award at the Traverse City event. The winning team had a dB meter. It didn't seem to matter because no one ever turned the sound down at the event. Does it really take a dB meter to tell you that it is too loud? When you can actual feel your head vibrating from the noise, it's too loud. We had our team members download sound meter apps on their phones and iPods.

We are planning to write a letter to UL. Just need to figure out where to send it.

Raffi

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by raffi383

From my understanding we didn't win the safety award at the Detroit event because of an issue we had with one of the safety judges. She stood in the aisle and would not move until we yelled robot. Instead, we walked around her.

Later, she said we bumped her with the robot when we walked around. I don't know if we did or not but after some discussion, I apologized. It didn't matter.
<snip>

That's just wrong.

A safety adviser blocks a team moving a robot just to insist yelling "ROBOT" to get by? That's contrary to what safety is really about.

I hope someone at FIRST addresses this before personal safety issues arise.

I won't tolerate student running in the pits and I'm about to get a lot more proactive about this rude, unnecessary shouting in the pits.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

At a couple of events teams would have Safety Criers escort teams back to the pits to cry "ROBOT!" for them. I wanted one team to yell " Robot Parts! Freshs Robot Parts here!".

This is a prime example of safety theater and I think the UL advisers should be warned to avoid encouraging this.

When the safety award becomes more about being visibly safe than being actually safe, then it becomes a problem. The posters, the criers, the safety handouts do absolutely nothing.

The most useful thing I've seen a safety team do was when 1629 handed out battery spill cleanup buckets to every team at the event that didn't have the materials already. That makes sense.

Posters and advertising safety do not. A safety culture does. Also, what's the deal with putting posters above urinals? It's just weird and a little invasive.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

At a couple of events teams would have Safety Criers escort teams back to the pits to cry "ROBOT!" for them. I wanted one team to yell " Robot Parts! Freshs Robot Parts here!".

I think the only acceptable thing, and team, to be yelling when moving their robot is Team 1939, the Kuh-Nig-Its, who occasionally push their robot and cry out "Bring out your dead!"

[David8696]

I personally like the shouting of "Robot." It's my first year in FIRST, and when I showed up at my first regional, I loved hearing "Robot! Robot!" every few minutes. And I think it's very helpful to know when to get out of the way. Quite frankly, politeness is not worth the increased risk, even if it's only very slightly increased, that the robot that you've spent the last month working on could be injured.