[YMTC]: [YMTC] How Many Modifications?

[bduddy]

Ed. note: This situation is hypothetical only, and as far as I know is not based on any real persons, teams, or events. Please answer based on your best interpretation of the 2013 Rulebook.



While they may not have a 10-second 30-point climb or a 9-disc autonomous, Redateam is fairly happy with their robot - they managed to weigh in at "only" 115 pounds, including a 20-pound shooter, and more importantly, they're going to eliminations! Also going to eliminations, and in fact facing Redateam in the first round, is Blueabot, a fearsome full-court shooter. So Redateam does what any good, strategic FRC team would do - they whip off their shooter, stash it (safely!) in a corner of their pit, and quickly replace it with 10 pounds of pool noodles, nets, and tape; of course, because they don't want to fall afoul of rule [T10], they promptly bring the robot for re-inspection. They win their QF match, and with full-court shooters nowhere to be seen in the semifinals, they cry "Why not put the shooter back on?!" They do, the impromptu blocker becomes decoration for their pit, and of course the robot promptly re-appears at the inspection table. Another match win later, and Redateam's celebrations are somewhat muted by the fact that they're about to face the #1 seed, Greenabot - the biggest, baddest full-court shooter around. Like clockwork, Redabot's shooter disappears to parts unknown and the robot and blocker zip straight to inspection.

But are all of these "quick changes" legal? You make the call! You might want to look specifically at rules [R05], [T08] and [T10].

[FrankJ]

If the total parts were less than 120 lb, & presented for inspection, they could switch back & forth to their heart's content without reinspection. That is fairly clear in the rules.

There is nothing in the rules saying you cannot continue to modify the robot with parts in total would exceed 120lbs. If your parts were in the R-21 30lb of spare part allotment you could re-use them with re-inspection. If not rule R21 would come into play & you would have to fab new mechanisms using raw material & cots parts. (shooter included.) The way your LRI interprets all this of course will be the final decision. All else is speculation.

If they presented & passed inspection the robot each time, they are legal by definition regardless of how others interpret the rules.

[Racer26]

Tough call.

I would say that its the putting the shooter back on action that is most questionable.

I suspect in practice, this series of actions would go unquestioned.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Frank,
You are correct and on the right track. If you are planning a change and the additional parts with your previous robot weight are under 120 lbs, then the additional parts are considered an attachment or additional mechanism which is legal under the robot rules. These mechanisms may be changed from match to match.

R05
The ROBOT weight may not exceed 120 lbs. When determining weight, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional MECHANISMS that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT shall be weighed together.

Teams are allowed to make improvements to their robot any time the pits are open, provided the additions are manufactured on site or at the machine shop. If however, the improvement requires removing another part of the robot in order to comply with weight, it may not be exchanged in later matches for the remainder of that event without violating R05. While this might be the first time most of you will be aware of this, the rule has been in place for several years. The interpretation for removing/adding mechanisms that exceed 120 lbs has also been used in competition for many years.
I like to classify this rule as one of the WildStang rules as we often had interchangeable "attachments". Our last foray was in 2003 when we planned a stacker in addition to our other devices. As I remember the stacker was never mounted during competition. During that time, teams merely had to weigh in with their heaviest mechanism to make weight. Shortly there after, it became illegal to swap out attachments that in total exceeded the robot legal weight.

[bduddy]

Maybe I wasn't clear in how I phrased the scenario: The shooter, blocker, and unchanged remainder of the robot (minus bumpers, etc.) combined total more than 120 pounds. That's where the potential issue comes in.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by bduddy

Maybe I wasn't clear in how I phrased the scenario: The shooter, blocker, and unchanged remainder of the robot (minus bumpers, etc.) combined total more than 120 pounds. That's where the potential issue comes in.

That would be illegal. Everything has to total less than 120 lbs, regardless of whether or not it is in use.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

That would be illegal. Everything has to total less than 120 lbs, regardless of whether or not it is in use.

That is the point of this thread to decide when (if) the robot becomes illegal during these modifications.

[BigJ]

In my interpretation the pre-semifinal inspection is invalid. The shooter was disqualified from further use at the event after removing the shooter to fit the blocker in the weight limit.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by BigJ

In my interpretation the pre-semifinal inspection is invalid. The shooter was disqualified from further use at the event after removing the shooter to fit the blocker in the weight limit.

Unless they fabricated a new one out of COTS components and raw materials, somehow improved on the old one, and then passed inspection again.

[orangemoore]

At Midwest in the Finals a team added pool noodles to make their robot tall enough to be able to block the Full court shooter. During the match they crossed out of their auto zone and across the field they then got a technical for being too tall and actually got turned off (their robot they were not disabled). What I took from this, is that desperate measures are not always the best to take trying to win by shooting may have been better b

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

At Midwest in the Finals a team added pool noodles to make their robot tall enough to be able to block the Full court shooter. During the match they crossed out of their auto zone and across the field they then got a technical for being too tall and actually got turned off (their robot they were not disabled). What I took from this, is that desperate measures are not always the best to take trying to win by shooting may have been better b

This was unfortunate as they were warned that the modification would limit their movement on the field. (As were all teams who made such modifications.)