Dry Ice on Robot?

[MrForbes]

I think that if it is insulated so it cannot come in contact with a human, it could be legal. There is no specific prohibition, and the only hazard I can think of with it is frostbite.

One that we have discussed quite a bit but never had the nerve to try, is a hydraulic system using water as the fluid. It's not hazardous, it won't damage very many things, and we've been building underwater robots for years so we're quite familiar with dealing with water and electronics and mechanicals at the same time.

[nicholsjj]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

I think that if it is insulated so it cannot come in contact with a human, it could be legal. There is no specific prohibition, and the only hazard I can think of with it is frostbite.

One that we have discussed quite a bit but never had the nerve to try, is a hydraulic system using water as the fluid. It's not hazardous, it won't damage very many things, and we've been building underwater robots for years so we're quite familiar with dealing with water and electronics and mechanicals at the same time.

I agree that if done properly then dry ice shouldn't be a problem, but why?

As for the hydraulic system using water; it would be hard to convince some people that is doesn't violate R37.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by nicholsjj

As for the hydraulic system using water; it would be hard to convince some people that is doesn't violate R37.

The power for it would come from the robot battery, which powers a legal robot motor, which turns the pump.

[fb39ca4]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

I think that if it is insulated so it cannot come in contact with a human, it could be legal. There is no specific prohibition, and the only hazard I can think of with it is frostbite.

One that we have discussed quite a bit but never had the nerve to try, is a hydraulic system using water as the fluid. It's not hazardous, it won't damage very many things, and we've been building underwater robots for years so we're quite familiar with dealing with water and electronics and mechanicals at the same time.

It would of course be protected so a human could not accidentally touch it.

Also, wouldn't the water be then considered a hydraulic fluid?

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by fb39ca4

It would of course be protected so a human could not accidentally touch it.

Even when you are adding more dry ice? I think that might be the sticky point....

Also, wouldn't the water be then considered a hydraulic fluid?

I'll get my lawyer working on that one.

[orangemoore]

It would look cool

[Jeff Pahl]

What are you using it for?

My opinion would be that if it is doing anything useful (providing cooling) then it is an illegal energy source, as the energy for creating the dry ice did not come from any of the allowed sources of energy that may be used on a robot, and the dry ice effectively becomes a stored energy device.

If it's a "non-functional decoration" then there would be a very long discussion and evaluation regarding the safety aspects. After which it most likely would be deemed to be illegal.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pahl

What are you using it for?

My opinion would be that if it is doing anything useful (providing cooling) then it is an illegal energy source, as the energy for creating the dry ice did not come from any of the allowed sources of energy that may be used on a robot, and the dry ice effectively becomes a stored energy device.

If it's a "non-functional decoration" then there would be a very long discussion and evaluation regarding the safety aspects. After which it most likely would be deemed to be illegal.

But what about using it between back-to-back elimination matches to cool off motors?

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Woolly

But what about using it between back-to-back elimination matches to cool off motors?

We played with that for fun - we put a bunch of crushed up dry ice in the bottom of a shop vac and checked the output temperature. The sublimation rate is not nearly fast enough to affect the temperature.

You'd have a fun argument on your hands if you tried to hold it on the motors yourself. Just used a compressed air can and turn it upside down. Same thing, safer, and probably faster too.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

We played with that for fun - we put a bunch of crushed up dry ice in the bottom of a shop vac and checked the output temperature. The sublimation rate is not nearly fast enough to affect the temperature.

You'd have a fun argument on your hands if you tried to hold it on the motors yourself. Just used a compressed air can and turn it upside down. Same thing, safer, and probably faster too.

Well if one had a water block that could easily/quickly clamp over a motor, they could set up a water cooling system, and then have the radiator sitting in a cooler full of dry ice. Maybe even have it set up so a robot battery could be used to run the pump...

That seems like it's so much overkill though.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

You'd have a fun argument on your hands if you tried to hold it on the motors yourself. Just used a compressed air can and turn it upside down. Same thing, safer, and probably faster too.

Safer for the humans, but those permanent magnets inside the CIMs (and many other motors) are about as fragile as glass.

Try this: Boil a regular drinking glass, then plunge it into ice cold water. What happens? Yep, same for a ferrite magnet, which means you'll be changing a motor soon.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Try this: Boil a regular drinking glass, then plunge it into ice cold water. What happens? Yep, same for a ferrite magnet, which means you'll be changing a motor soon.

For point of not getting in trouble with my parents, I assume the glass would crack? I can see why people would look for ways to cool a motor down fast after a match, but even after playing some back to backs with "pushing" matches, I can't recall our motors getting too hot. Meaning they still pass the 5 second test. Maybe it's just the competitions I've been in.

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by CalTran

For point of not getting in trouble with my parents, I assume the glass would crack? I can see why people would look for ways to cool a motor down fast after a match, but even after playing some back to backs with "pushing" matches, I can't recall our motors getting too hot. Meaning they still pass the 5 second test. Maybe it's just the competitions I've been in.

To be safer than the science experiment recommended above, you can get the same effect by boiling water inside an open soda can, then turning the can upside down and dunk it into cold water.

[flippy147852]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I can see why people would look for ways to cool a motor down fast after a match, but even after playing some back to backs with "pushing" matches, I can't recall our motors getting too hot. Meaning they still pass the 5 second test. Maybe it's just the competitions I've been in.

I know a timeout (timeouts even?) was taken at the 2010 MSC finals because we had back-to-back-to-back-to-back matches and our motors were literally too hot to touch. I think we cooled them with wet rags, but that was pretty slow.

[FrankJ]

C02 is not toxic to humans. Without it you have no breathing reflex, stop breathing, & die. One of the reasons confined space access is such a pain in the @#Q. (Oxygen deficiency lead to no C02 in lunges).