[FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!

[Abhishek R]

I think the advantage 1114 has over 2056 at Champs is how unique they are. If you think about it, the number of bots with a 30 point climb that can shoot accurately and quickly is pretty limited (1114 and 254 come to mind). Several teams can do a 7 disk auto/and have an efficient enough ground pickup during tele-op (118, 254, 1477, 987). The amount of 7 disk auto bots in a division at Champs compared with climbing shooters is probably 3:1. If I had the choice, I would take 1114 any day.

[ehochstein]

This is the first time I can remember ever seeing a Minnesota team on the list (2169). Unlike most sports there are 2000+ FRC teams in the US and it is simply impossible for a single person voting to know everything about all the teams. I view FRC Top 25 as more of a popularity contest (aka who gets talked about the most) then an accurate ranking system.

[joelg236]

Originally Posted by Patrick Flynn

Anyone didn't fill out more that 15 care to explain why?

Not enough time/energy to dig deep into memory. If I had a lot of time and data I would, but build season never ends.

[Bstep]

I'm surprised I don't see 2471 Mean Machine up there. Fantastic job in Portland and great alliance partner in Spokane. They'll give everyone a scare in St. Louis when they pull out their five disc auto for the first time. An FCS that can pick up discs off the center line in Auto is potent--especially paired with a shuttle-bot team that can pick them up off the ground under and in front of the pyramid. We'll be trying out a six disc Auto in St. Louis, so maybe 2471 and us can get together again and sweep up the floor in Auto.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by Dave McLaughlin

Or the Northwest.

Well, I've seen the Skunks (1983) arguably the top team in the Northwest in person, and I've seen 1334, currently ranked 25th, in person.

I greatly admire Skunkworks and many teams in Washington and Oregon, but to be perfectly honest unless Skunkworks got a 50 point climb and dump working for Spokane, 1334 will beat them every time.

Sincere apologies to my friends in the Northwest, but I've played in Oregon, I've played in Washington and I've played in Ontario.

Ontario really is that good. One day I'll have to check out Michigan... I hear they know how to make robots there, too.

On the other hand, keep in mind that the list of zoo animals didn't have Pandas on it. I mean really... if the zoo animals didn't have Pandas on it, how can you take the other list too seriously?

Jason

P.S. What? No animals from North America? I've seen a Grizzly Bear and a Grizzly will kick a tiger's butt any day! And don't even get me started talking about Polar Bears!

[Akash Rastogi]

Relax all, it is just peer voting.

[Bstep]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

unless Skunkworks got a 50 point climb and dump working

Unfortunately we are 119.7 lbs and will not be adding a 30 point climber. We have given the robot the ability to go to a steeper shooting angle though and may give shooting at the top of the pyramid a go.

[Anupam Goli]

Not many teams can go 3/3 in a season: 33, 118, 469, 1114, 1983, 1986, and 2056 are the only ones to go 3/3 with regional victories. 1983 is the only one that has done it in 3 back to back competitions. Think about that for a moment: with an immediate turn around between events and very little time to iterate and perfect their designs, they still win every week. That's just amazing. They might not be as well known as the Canadian duo or the famous Texas and California teams, but they deserve to be recognized among the top. I'm gonna hop onto the 1983 fan train and hope they go far at Championships.

[PayneTrain]

There are over 2500 FRC teams.
There are over 6 dozen events this year.

There were only 80 ballots.

There is plenty of time for me to
a) respect a team like 1983 that won 4 banners in 3 straight events
b) watch Mike & Justin's show and have some fun for a few hours
c) pass my Computer science class

But, as I imagine is the case for a lot of people, it's hard to take the right amount of time to do the due diligence necessary to fill out a bracket that one is comfortable calling an honest assessment of the top 1% of teams in competition, so polls go entirely unfilled.

It's a peer poll. It's all for fun. Like there is an East Coast bias in sports, the poll reflects an obvious Northeast, California, and Michigan bias because there are high concentrations of teams there and a high likelihood voters hail from those locations. Results like 1986 and 111 are results of being very visible presence on Chief Delphi, which honestly can't be said for a lot of teams in the Southeast or Northwest.

If you built a robot and a team that won 4 banners in 3 events, I'm not sure what other validation you need other than that of multiple panels of judges, the results on the field, and most importantly, the impact your team is making at home.

[Ivan Malik]

Is there any way to track where voters (and viewers) are from? Something as simple as a state or province or country, just to get a general idea of regional biases?

Hint hint: Future field on the voters ballot

[JohnSchneider]

To steal from another sport that uses a (ridiculous) ranking system maybe we adopt the BCS style of ranking from college football.

We take a general populus vote (AP Poll)
Then certain mentors from established teams and educated people from delphi are selected and they cast a ballot (coaches poll)
And then we use some style of FIM point calculation for the entire nation (dont need to rank just need to know how many points they got in their own region or whatever) And we just combine those

I think it sounds a lot harder than it would be *shrugs* But the BCS doesnt work either sooooo

[AdamHeard]

FRCtop25 used to do a coaches poll; and it was decent and accurate. The current rankings are garbage, it's more about buzz and hype than anything else.

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

To steal from another sport that uses a (ridiculous) ranking system maybe we adopt the BCS style of ranking from college football.

We take a general populus vote (AP Poll)
Then certain mentors from established teams and educated people from delphi are selected and they cast a ballot (coaches poll)
And then we use some style of FIM point calculation for the entire nation (dont need to rank just need to know how many points they got in their own region or whatever) And we just combine those

I think it sounds a lot harder than it would be *shrugs* But the BCS doesnt work either sooooo

[JackS]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

the poll reflects an obvious Northeast, California, and Michigan bias

There are no NE teams on this list.

[Mark Sheridan]

Rather than ranking, it would be nice for the show to shift to showcasing cool robots and highlights. Kinda like the mentor poll, where certain key people write references for a cool robot or game highlight in their area.

With all the OPR data done by Ed Law, and threads showing district raking points, I don't really need another list of robots in sequential order.

I like listening to top 25 for its entertainment value. I think showcasing the top 25 coolest robots and highlights of the week would have me hooked every week.

[Mr. Lim]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

If you built a robot and a team that won 4 banners in 3 events, I'm not sure what other validation you need other than that of multiple panels of judges, the results on the field, and most importantly, the impact your team is making at home.

I really like the FRC Top 25 for this reason. Every week, there is a smattering of teams I've never heard of on it that are amazing.

These are the teams that don't win the banners, don't have a big presence on CD, and are generally unknowns in the community. But these teams have built otherwise world-class machines that some very knowledgeable peers have chosen to recognize.

Without a doubt, I scan the list for teams I DON'T recognize, and pay a lot more attention to them than the ones I DO. To me, this is the best part about FRC Top 25.

In fact...

There is a big grin on my face seeing the team in the #17 spot, who no one outside of Ontario has ever seen before. Yet enough people have picked up on them to recognize that a robot with:

• a 7-disc auton
• feeder station cycling/pyramid shots
• ground pick-up/pyramid shots
• full court shooting
• 10pt hang

...is probably one of the best robots in the world right now - despite this team NEVER having won a regional, or ever qualifying for champs before.

They're one of the least recognized teams with respect to the amount that they've been able to achieve consistently for the past few years, both on and off the field.