Using Discs to Block Full Court Shooters

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Looks like a good one for Q&A. Posted:

Q623:
Do DISCS under the active control of a ROBOT count towards the limits defined by the PLAYING CONFIGURATION? STARTING CONFIGURATION?

You little... Spoilsport!

In all seriousness, I think this would have been a pretty good YMTC topic, and definitely a good one for Q&A to answer. IMO, right now, there is nothing forbidding this strategy. After Q&A speaks, there may be an interpretation or rule to do that--but if they don't put one out now, there may be some few disc-type blockers popping up this weekend from alert competitors.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Woolly

Well, hey, if you already have the discs at 90", what would it take to be able to kick them out into the pyramid goal reliably?

Probably the difficulty in getting a colored disc into a stable gripper from a hp slot rather than preloading it by hand prematch. That would be a decent engineering deal rather than a morning addition

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by EricH

You little... Spoilsport!

In all seriousness, I think this would have been a pretty good YMTC topic, and definitely a good one for Q&A to answer. IMO, right now, there is nothing forbidding this strategy. After Q&A speaks, there may be an interpretation or rule to do that--but if they don't put one out now, there may be some few disc-type blockers popping up this weekend from alert competitors.

I've taken your signature to heart!

Though given how slow the GDC has been with Q&A this late in the season, the YMTC option may be the faster one

[efoote868]

Only issue I can think of is if the disc you're holding breaks, Refs might not like you destroying game pieces.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Probably the difficulty in getting a colored disc into a stable gripper from a hp slot rather than preloading it by hand prematch. That would be a decent engineering deal rather than a morning addition

The best solution I can think of off-hand would be to put a claw on a lead-screw, and having some way of relaxing the claw just enough that you can kick the Frisbees out with a pneumatic cylinder without dropping the them.

Which sounds like a modified Logomotion bot, not a modified Ultimate Ascent bot.

[Tristan Lall]

Since there's no rule that says discs count as part of the robot for certain purposes, there's no good reason to believe that this is an exception. (Do discs count as they're being ejected? Do they count when they're in the goals?) It should be 100% permissible.

And as for next year, if FIRST wanted to kill all the interesting, unexpected strategies, they might as well simplify their effort and just make the next game robotic dressage. I trust it won't come to that.

[MrJohnston]

I object to this thought. We should let tall full court shooters roam free - they are, after all, a thing of beauty!

In all seriousness, though...

I don't see using a disk to effectively increase your height as being an issue. However, you had best have a good grip in it as most FCS will send their disk with some power. Other solutiosn might be easier to pull off.

However, if you increase the perimeter, you would have to be careful about bumps in the protected feeder zone. I suspect that contact with the held Frisbee would still be considered a violation of G30 as it would violate the spirit of a protected zone.

[pfreivald]

I think that FIRST tries very hard to prevent chokehold strategies in their games, and that the rules were written with full-court shooters and blockers for those shooters in mind.

So (a) I believe this would be 100% legal, and (b) I don't think that the GDC would look at it and think, "Oh, no! We missed something!"

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Only issue I can think of is if the disc you're holding breaks, Refs might not like you destroying game pieces.

This brings up a good question, who is destroying the disc? The robot holding it, or the robot shooting discs at it at a very high velocity? I think the burden falls on the full court shooter to not shoot at things that they shouldn't shoot at.

Then G18-1 exists...

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Only issue I can think of is if the disc you're holding breaks, Refs might not like you destroying game pieces.

I know what you mean about how the Field Reset Crew doesn't like Frisbees being destroyed.

[zmeves]

Originally Posted by CalTran

And could have been our chance to block some of your shots at Razorback...but alas your shots cleared our noodle tips.

I well remember being afraid of you blocking our shots

[Grim Tuesday]

Q&A is in:

Q623 Q. Do DISCS under the active control of a ROBOT count towards the limits defined by the PLAYING CONFIGURATION? STARTING CONFIGURATION?
A. No. No.

Not surprised but I wish I had thought of the idea earlier and made a robot designed to be 70" in the opponent's auto zone. Also a robot that ferries discs.

[efoote868]

Since you get three frisbees at the start, you could try and wedge the third frisbee in between the first two, and increase your effective height even more.