All District FIRST?

[dodar]

Or maybe you do like randomized groups at the beginning of the year with every team in FIRST. Then, after you are put into a group, you play through a normal year of FIRST accumulating points like in a district but not from anywhere specifically, just from where you compete. And then at the end of the regular season, the top X teams from each group go to Worlds. Like say 1592, 1986, 1983, 175 could all end up in the same group(there would be more than 4 but those are the 4 that came to mind first) but 1592 plays at Orlando, 1986 at GKC, 1983 at Spokane, and 175 at Boston; say they all win the regional undefeated, then each team would have the same number of "group points" towards getting that slot at Worlds.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by dodar

Or maybe you do like randomized groups at the beginning of the year with every team in FIRST. Then, after you are put into a group, you play through a normal year of FIRST accumulating points like in a district but not from anywhere specifically, just from where you compete. And then at the end of the regular season, the top X teams from each group go to Worlds. Like say 1592, 1986, 1983, 175 could all end up in the same group(there would be more than 4 but those are the 4 that came to mind first) but 1592 plays at Orlando, 1986 at GKC, 1983 at Spokane, and 175 at Boston; say they all win the regional undefeated, then each team would have the same number of "group points" towards getting that slot at Worlds.

Interesting. I'm not sure I like competing for a slot at CMP with teams I'll never see, but I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand just because of that. Having teams in different groups competing at the same event would make for some really "interesting" politics. Possibly even more interesting than what already goes on.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Interesting. I'm not sure I like competing for a slot at CMP with teams I'll never see, but I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand just because of that. Having teams in different groups competing at the same event would make for some really "interesting" politics. Possibly even more interesting than what already goes on.

Im curious as to why you think that? The thought process behind that, was that this formula for making it to Worlds would put all the burden on your team's ability to play the game and understand the alliance selection to allow you to play the game to the best of your ability.This would almost entirely erase the feeling teams will have about competing in the elimination with teams that arelady own a slot at Worlds. In this setup, every match you play alters not only your chance of making it but pretty much every other team in FIRST. This allows for each team to quantify each match to an even greater magnitude.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I pulled the below division off the NEFIRST blog. I believe this was done a few years ago so things will probably change but it at leasts let you see some ideas of how districts could be divided.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I pulled the below division off the NEFIRST blog. I believe this was done a few years ago so things will probably change but it at leasts let you see some ideas of how districts could be divided.

That's a VERY cool way of doing it, thanks for sharing!

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by dodar

Im curious as to why you think that? The thought process behind that, was that this formula for making it to Worlds would put all the burden on your team's ability to play the game and understand the alliance selection to allow you to play the game to the best of your ability.This would almost entirely erase the feeling teams will have about competing in the elimination with teams that arelady own a slot at Worlds. In this setup, every match you play alters not only your chance of making it but pretty much every other team in FIRST. This allows for each team to quantify each match to an even greater magnitude.

Because it's fun to have direct interaction with a team with whom you're competing. It's fun to have long-standing relationships with those teams as well; if we randomly select groups every year those will constantly shift.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and neither of my "fun" reasons are terribly significant. I do wonder about the size of the groups; you're probably always going to end up with teams in your group at the same regional. So you could still be competing with teams that have already qualified, and now the competition is on two levels -- within the group, and for the blue banner at that event. Have you thought about those kind of interactions?

Remember, I said "...I'm not sure I like...." I'm putting an emphasis on uncertainty, and I'm interested in the idea.

How many groups do you think this needs?

[Phyrxes]

I went to a meeting at our regional this year about Districts, *hat tip* to the visitors from MAR who also attended and gave some personal insight.

The National Capital Area is currently looking at the district model but we were told it would be 2015 at the earliest. For reference this district could absorb 3 Regional Events (DC/Chesapeake/Virginia).

Given the proximity between MAR and the parts of the possible National Capital Area the idea of playing across district lines surfaces again.

At that meeting coaches were very divided on their initial perceptions of going to the district model so it may be an interesting ride.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Where do you think the next few district areas will be?

It appears New England will be going district/"conference" next year. California, Minnesota, the National Capital regional (Maryland, DC, Virginia), Canada/Ontario, and some combinations of Midwest states (Illinois + Indiana + Ohio? + Wisconsin?) may switch the year after that. Representatives from Minnesota and the National Capital region have attended MAR events over the past two years, to get a feel for events and what teams think of them.

[ghostmachine360]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I pulled the below division off the NEFIRST blog. I believe this was done a few years ago so things will probably change but it at leasts let you see some ideas of how districts could be divided.

Southeast Region.....
Let's just change that to the Southeastern Conference, aka, the SEC.

It fits us better.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by ghostmachine360

Southeast Region.....
Let's just change that to the Southeastern Conference, aka, the SEC.

It fits us better.

We need a lot more teams before it can work down here. Florida needs over 150, Georgia would need over 100, South Carolina would need over 80 and Alabama would need over 70 and even then Alabama might have to be split up into 2 different regions.

[dodar]

Actually, when Florida hits the 150 team mark, we could have our own district system.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Phyrxes

I went to a meeting at our regional this year about Districts, *hat tip* to the visitors from MAR who also attended and gave some personal insight.

The National Capital Area is currently looking at the district model but we were told it would be 2015 at the earliest. For reference this district could absorb 3 Regional Events (DC/Chesapeake/Virginia).

Given the proximity between MAR and the parts of the possible National Capital Area the idea of playing across district lines surfaces again.

At that meeting coaches were very divided on their initial perceptions of going to the district model so it may be an interesting ride.

The topic of districts in the National Capital Region sure seems to be a lot more complex than I imagined. At the Virginia Regional, there was a lot of animosity from groups of people who liked keeping the format unchanged in Virginia. There are solid reasons for this: 5 of the 6 teams who qualified for Championships out of the Virginia Regional only attended the Virginia Regional. VirginiaFIRST and the Virginia Regional are the second oldest 501c3 and event pair, only behind the FIRST in Michigan and Great Lakes Regional, which is now the Michigan State Championship. Still, it is important to note that some teams in Virginia, including <1000 level teams, do not think they can sustain having to pay double to get into CMP. 422 has provided financial assistance to teams in our area just to get them a bus to St. Louis.

However, my issue with maintaining the status quo in our region is that by not acting as soon as possible to make this change to the competition structure in the area, we are actively hampering the progress of the program. In Virginia this year, teams only played 8 qualification matches. If you didn't make eliminations and were a veteran team, you essentially forked out $625/match, which is something people at the Virginia meeting seemed to be apprehensive to accept as something bad.

At the Washington, DC Regional, which is common ground for teams all over Virginia, Maryland, and the district, there was near-unanimous approval at the meeting, citing the low costs, equal or fewer days out of school/work, and in general, a remarkable return on investment. Why that message did not come across well to some Virginia teams remains a disappointing mystery to me. There is money for teams in the states and district if they just go look for it.
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Back on the topic at hand
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If the National Capital Region is to switch over to districts by the 2015 season (which I still expect), there will be an interesting situation where pretty much the entirety of the northeast will be in the district system. They could theoretically all play under the same point system but have some restrictions (the limit on how you can submit for DCA, and you can only attend your local championship), but the whole area could serve as a test-bed for inter-district play.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by dodar

Actually, when Florida hits the 150 team mark, we could have our own district system.

I don't see how you think 150 teams is a magic number. Michigan started around 120 teams, MAR started at around 100, and I think NEFIRST will start at around 160.

The district system is a totally scalable model. If Hawaii wanted to move all of its 3 dozen or so teams over to a district model, it's fine. It works better when you "combine" regionals like Philly and NJ into MAR, DC, Chesapeake, and VA into the NCR, and Florida could fold in Orlando and South Florida into its own district system, play with 72-80 teams, and it would still work. Michigan's first year of districts also had nearly the same team density as Florida does right now.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I don't see how you think 150 teams is a magic number. Michigan started around 120 teams, MAR started at around 100, and I think NEFIRST will start at around 160.

The district system is a totally scalable model. If Hawaii wanted to move all of its 3 dozen or so teams over to a district model, it's fine. It works better when you "combine" regionals like Philly and NJ into MAR, DC, Chesapeake, and VA into the NCR, and Florida could fold in Orlando and South Florida into its own district system, play with 72-80 teams, and it would still work. Michigan's first year of districts also had nearly the same team density as Florida does right now.

I used the same team per square mile that FiM and MAR used which came to 150 for Florida. Florida right now has 76 teams spread out over pretty much the entire state with a lot of bald spots within the state. Once those areas get populated, the district model will most likely be applicable.

[PayneTrain]

Michigan Team Count in 2009: 132
Area of State: 96,716 sq miles

Team Density: .13%

Florida Team Count in 2013: 72
Area of State: 58,560 sq miles

Team Density: .12%