All District FIRST?

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Michigan Team Count in 2009: 132
Area of State: 96,716 sq miles

Team Density: .13%

The land area of Michigan is 56,803 sq miles according to the state Government. The 96,716 area includes Lake Michigan, and there are very few teams based there...

...until next year's water game!

[dodar]

132>76. How is that so hard to understand? More teams is needed to have more events in more areas. Right now you'd have like 3 in Orlando, 2 in Tampa, and like 3 in the Miami area. That's not how you want the districts spread out over the state.

[Jacob Paikoff]

Originally Posted by dodar

132>76. How is that so hard to understand? More teams is needed to have more events in more areas. Right now you'd have like 3 in Orlando, 2 in Tampa, and like 3 in the Miami area. That's not how you want the districts spread out over the state.

I would agree, right now there just isn't enough team density in the major areas and they are too spread out to have 4 district events.

On the other hand I would like to see Florida move towards district sooner rather than later. Here are my thoughts on the system and its future: http://nop-jepblog.blogspot.com/2013...ct-system.html

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by dodar

132>76. How is that so hard to understand? More teams is needed to have more events in more areas. Right now you'd have like 3 in Orlando, 2 in Tampa, and like 3 in the Miami area. That's not how you want the districts spread out over the state.

Michigan is mostly clustered around Detroit.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Jacob Paikoff

I would agree, right now there just isn't enough team density in the major areas and they are too spread out to have 4 district events.

On the other hand I would like to see Florida move towards district sooner rather than later. Here are my thoughts on the system and its future: http://nop-jepblog.blogspot.com/2013...ct-system.html

I like your thoughts, just wanted to point out a couple of things. NE doesn't want to have 2 simultaneous championships, they just want 2 fields at the championship, to accomodate 80-100 teams. Also, teams in Michigan don't qualify just based on the championship, points earned during district events count for 40% and points earned during the championship count for 60% in determining who qualifies for Worlds.

[bnardone64]

How about if FIRST implements districts similar to the current regional system: Any team can sign up for any district, even ones outside their local area. However, if a team qualifies to advance in any district, they must go to that district's regional. Regionals are set up as a second level in between districts and Championships.

[Phyrxes]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

...At the Washington, DC Regional, which is common ground for teams all over Virginia, Maryland, and the district, there was near-unanimous approval at the meeting, citing the low costs, equal or fewer days out of school/work, and in general, a remarkable return on investment. Why that message did not come across well to some Virginia teams remains a disappointing mystery to me. There is money for teams in the states and district if they just go look for it....

I have a theory about why the receptions at DC and VA meetings went very differently. In the proposed NCA there is the potential for some teams to have the same travel issues that the Upper Peninsula teams of FiM have.

Looking at the teams that registered this year for the events and assuming they had a mentor at the meetings there is a significant disparity in the number of teams that will be within say 100 miles of two or more proposed district events. For those teams I can see travel being a significant issue as they are generally located at one end of the proposed district border and it is possible that a non district event would be closer than any "non home" district would be.

[waialua359]

As more teams in specific areas move to a District model, we find ourselves (and other non-district teams) stuck with less choices for attending regionals across the globe.
Quite honestly, that sucks for the rest of us.
If at some point, we can only compete in Hawaii, then its time for another program.
Hawaii will never move to a district model because the cost is horrendous and a logistical nightmare between islands.
With the expansion of more teams west of Hawaii emerging, it'll be interesting to see how the Pan Pacific plays in all of this.

[Jacob Paikoff]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

I like your thoughts, just wanted to point out a couple of things. NE doesn't want to have 2 simultaneous championships, they just want 2 fields at the championship, to accomodate 80-100 teams. Also, teams in Michigan don't qualify just based on the championship, points earned during district events count for 40% and points earned during the championship count for 60% in determining who qualifies for Worlds.

But wouldn't the NE champs have to be separate because for teams to play on both fields they would have to change their wpa key for each field. (I could be wrong since I'm a mechanical guy and don't know much about networking)

[dodar]

In response to Joe:
Yes, buts that also because you have probably more than half of the FiM teams within a few hours travel distance of those events; which allows for multiple of those events at the same time. You could no do that in Florida. Take Central Florida teams for example, if you dont have a Central Florida regional atleast once a week, its almost a travel regional to anywhere else in the state; unless you just want to have the same teams competing against each other every single week. From Brevard County to Jacksonville or Miami is 2-4 hours one way. That would mean getting hotels for a North Florida District or a South Florida District. When the areas between the Georgia border and Orlando are filled in along with Miami to Orlando, then you can gain those easily attendable district events. Looking towards a Florida District system, I think there would have to be events in: Orlando, Tampa, Melbourne, Daytona, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Miami, Boca Raton, Pensacola. That would see pretty evenly distributed and all near areas that would get the most team growth.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by bnardone64

How about if FIRST implements districts similar to the current regional system: Any team can sign up for any district, even ones outside their local area. However, if a team qualifies to advance in any district, they must go to that district's regional. Regionals are set up as a second level in between districts and Championships.

Originally Posted by waialua359

If at some point, we can only compete in Hawaii, then its time for another program.
Hawaii will never move to a district model because the cost is horrendous and a logistical nightmare between islands.

I am sincerely hoping that as we move to more bordering district regions, that FIRST helps us all figure out how to do the interdistrict play... but to do that, the points systems very likely have to be the same (or have some weird thing like the points don't count for your out of district play). There have been plenty of discussions around this, but I think so far FIRST has been against it. I think if more regions start to push for it, and as more Districts form up, I think it will be time to try and figure out how to do this effectively, as what has made so much of FIRST great is meeting teams from other places and finding out more about different regions. I really hope that we find a way to make all of that work.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by dodar

In response to Joe:
Yes, buts that also because you have probably more than half of the FiM teams within a few hours travel distance of those events; which allows for multiple of those events at the same time. You could no do that in Florida. Take Central Florida teams for example, if you dont have a Central Florida regional atleast once a week, its almost a travel regional to anywhere else in the state; unless you just want to have the same teams competing against each other every single week. From Brevard County to Jacksonville or Miami is 2-4 hours one way. That would mean getting hotels for a North Florida District or a South Florida District. When the areas between the Georgia border and Orlando are filled in along with Miami to Orlando, then you can gain those easily attendable district events. Looking towards a Florida District system, I think there would have to be events in: Orlando, Tampa, Melbourne, Daytona, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Miami, Boca Raton, Pensacola. That would see pretty evenly distributed and all near areas that would get the most team growth.

Neither Michigan nor MAR have ideal team or district desnities. Nowhere does. There are always going to be teams who have to travel further or stay overnight to compete. The most flagrant example would be the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which lacks the team density for its own district and is at least 3 hours from the nearest district and about 5 from the next closest. The district model is not the best solution for 100% of teams, but it does help the majority of teams compete more at less expense.

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I am sincerely hoping that as we move to more bordering district regions, that FIRST helps us all figure out how to do the interdistrict play... but to do that, the points systems very likely have to be the same (or have some weird thing like the points don't count for your out of district play). There have been plenty of discussions around this, but I think so far FIRST has been against it. I think if more regions start to push for it, and as more Districts form up, I think it will be time to try and figure out how to do this effectively, as what has made so much of FIRST great is meeting teams from other places and finding out more about different regions. I really hope that we find a way to make all of that work.

Ultimately, I think the simplest solution is to not have borders at all. Simply register for whatever districts you chose, just like you would with regionals currently. Then your points earned count towards your assigned region championship. I don't even think the points system would even really have to be the same, you simply earn them based on your region's point system.

That being said, I would like a standardized point system. Preferably the FiM/MAR system (with the RAS difference resolved), as I don't really like the proposed NE system.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Neither Michigan nor MAR have ideal team or district desnities. Nowhere does. There are always going to be teams who have to travel further or stay overnight to compete. The most flagrant example would be the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which lacks the team density for its own district and is at least 3 hours from the nearest district and about 5 from the next closest. The district model is not the best solution for 100% of teams, but it does help the majority of teams compete more at less expense.

I wasnt saying that it was good/bad for particular teams but for the areas with high density teams going to events outside their respective areas. With the high density team areas, there just isnt enough teams in those areas to supports singular district events, let alone multiple in the vicinity;

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by dodar

I wasnt saying that it was good/bad for particular teams but for the areas with high density teams going to events outside their respective areas. With the high density team areas, there just isnt enough teams in those areas to supports singular district events, let alone multiple in the vicinity;

Here's what Michigan looked like in 2008, the last year before Districts. No where could support a single event, with the exception of Detroit. It doesn't look significantly different then Florida does now, with the exception that Detroit has more teams then any single area of Florida does now.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Jacob Paikoff

But wouldn't the NE champs have to be separate because for teams to play on both fields they would have to change their wpa key for each field. (I could be wrong since I'm a mechanical guy and don't know much about networking)

Nothing that specific has been released yet, but I think that could be worked around. Having 2 divisions would probably be one way around it. I don't know much about this, but I would think there is some plausible way to have teams play qualification matches on 2 different fields.