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#61
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
Team 4054 had an amazing defensive robot this year. We went against them one match and we could only make one trip back to the feeder station even though we were one of the fastest robots at our regional. They would shoot for 12 autonomous points and have a 10 point climb and then they would shut down any team on the opposing alliance that tried to score. They ended seeding 5th. Defense is important in UA.
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#62
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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Defense like this can turn a 5-cycle bot (or a pair) into a 2-3 cycle bot(s). Something that alot of teams seem to forget is that the defender is allowed to be in the feeder station and touching the feeder bot as long as the feeder bot isn't in the feeder station. And since most bots are longer than the feeder station is deep, you can actually use the backwall to help you keep them out. But goodness be careful you don't get boxed in by the opposing robot's teammate, or you'll be a sitting duck for penalties. |
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#63
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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*Ok, so it helps we drive swerve and don't telegraph directions. But it's really anyone's game--there's no guaranteed shutdown anymore than there's no guaranteed counter-D. |
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#64
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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#65
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
There's nothing new about it (nor is it complete)--anyone getting 3+ runs has been doing it or a variation for 7 weeks. The information isn't what the options are, it's which ones teams will take. Good offensive bots won't forecast this.
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#66
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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Just kidding, but there's nothing new about that strategy. Those are really the only 3 'lanes' any bot can actually take. Either push through the direct route to the feeder, go all the way around the pyramid, or go under the opposing pyramid (though this option is usually closed to the taller bots.). |
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#67
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
Not looking to start a flame war, but I disagree 100%. Pushing through defence is nearly always slower than driving around it. Granted, very few teams have the brecoflex tread like you do, but if I am looking for a cycler on my alliance, I am looking for agility not power. Just ask anyone on 610. They have gotten 7 cycles in a single match, but that would be really hard to do while pushing.
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#68
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
Exactly. Evading D has little to do with pure speed or pushing power, acceleration and deception are far more important.
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#69
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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I would imagine teams like 610 achieved multiple six and seven cycle rounds not only because of mechanical ability, but strategic prowess that allowed the drive team to predict the actions and reactions of their opponents faster than any defense could keep up with. Speed of thought behind the glass is just as critical as speed behind the bumpers at this level. The shrinking of the loading safe zone coupled with the third dimension to the scoring safe zone will continue to result in good coaches and strategists being able to pack as many scenarios into their heads to deal with the 2-minute blocks. |
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#70
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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The lanes are no secret; it's how you use them that matters. This field is designed to let good offensive bots raise the opportunity cost of playing defense.The strategies are far from new; in fact, they're far from exclusive to Ultimate Ascent. As for pushing while cycling, I can only think of 3 general situations in which I'd push a non-scorer, and maybe 3 more that I'd push a scorer. (None of them involve pushing through one D bot to score.) |
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#71
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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I'm an avid believer that there are certain instances that require 'volume by force' - with that meaning that regardless of what obstacles are present, the same volume of points must be scored. More often than not, this requires that a robot be built in such a way that allows it to be both nimble and forceful enough to decide where and how to hit the defender*. There have been instances this year where while under heavy defense we were still able to put up a reasonably high amount of points and this was due to some good decision making on our driver's part - specifically knowing when it's faster to evade and knowing when it's faster to 'remove' the defender from his path. *For those of you having trouble visualizing this: Imagine an instance where there is not a clear path around a defending robot without going completely out of your way. At this point, you come to the realization that the only way to get where you need to go in the time required is to make contact. Knowing that, you can now chose where you want to contact the defending robot, and logically, you want to hit them in such a way that you make them either spin out of your way or move in a direction that isn't in your path. Yes, contacting the defender will slow you down, but overall it is still faster than an alternate path - at least in situations like this. |
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#72
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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#73
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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Seriously, though, being able to go under pyramids is a big advantage, but defending against tall robots has also been tough because at one event we were told that if we (a defensive robot) pushed an opponent into our own pyramid, we would be called for a foul. |
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#74
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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The crazy micro-plays that are come up with in a moment's notice are some of the coolest bits of quick decision making in FIRST. I love looking for them in match videos. |
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#75
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Re: Defense in Ultimate Ascent
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There are many types of contact strategies, some better than others. IMO, the best ones are the ones that can be executed quickly, since the goal is to save time. That usually means spinning and dodging instead of downshifting and pushing. It all depends on the situation though. |
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