World Rankings

[stingray27]

Yeah ok. Thanks. I had known about that thread and was wondering if there was actually any "official" data out there regarding alliance selection and how the draft had played out at each tournament. I have been wondering about it for a while to see if I would be able to parse it from somewhere for my app....

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by stingray27

Yeah ok. Thanks. I had known about that thread and was wondering if there was actually any "official" data out there regarding alliance selection and how the draft had played out at each tournament. I have been wondering about it for a while to see if I would be able to parse it from somewhere for my app....

Joe has been going through the Alliance Selections thread over the past week or two, correcting and adding results from various regionals. As for parsing, alliance member with the highest rank is automatically the captain, but telling the 1st pick from the 2nd pick can't be done using the online data provided by first. Well, except that any pick with a rank higher than the lowest captain had to have been the alliance's first pick.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by stingray27

Yeah ok. Thanks. I had known about that thread and was wondering if there was actually any "official" data out there regarding alliance selection and how the draft had played out at each tournament. I have been wondering about it for a while to see if I would be able to parse it from somewhere for my app....

FIRST has the data, but doesn't publish it. Ed Law does a good job guessing the ambiguous cases using OPR in his scouting spreadsheet, but that's not that great when you get to the 6th, 7th, and 8th seeds with the serpentine. As others said, I used the alliance selection thread, and supplemented with other sources when needed.

[stingray27]

Ok. Well, thanks to all those who helped put this information online for those to use, and thanks Joe for compiling this information.

Is there anyway we can get FIRST to supply this information or put it somewhere online? I know it would be of great use for FIRST in Michigan, private applications and just to use in general. Possibly add it to the elimination schedule page on the FIRST information or FMS feed, or possibly organize the stations certain seeds are for their first matches, then randomize them after that. Anything would be nice....

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by stingray27

Is there anyway we can get FIRST to supply this information or put it somewhere online? I know it would be of great use for FIRST in Michigan,

FiM gets the data directly from the FTA. See http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...82&postcount=3

[kjohnson]

Team 103 is ranked 103 with 103 points...

[Hallry]

Are week 7 events (specifically MAR and FiM Championships) included in this?

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Are week 7 events included in this?

The Chesapeake regional is included. The Michigan and MAR championships are not. Since each team at the championships were already involved in 2 events, it wouldn't have impacted the rankings.

[Bob Steele]

I am assuming that no points were given for Engineering Inspiration or Chairman's Awards? I don't see them on the charts...just the other awards like spirit and safety, etc
i guess this is an artifact of using the FiM system. They don't give ranking points for these awards because they qualify directly for the State Championship... Normally teams that win one of these bigger awards don't receive any of the other awards that ARE given points under the FiM rules..

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

i guess this is an artifact of using the FiM system.

Correct:

Originally Posted by Jim Zondag

Q18: “Why are there no ranking points associated with the Chairman’s Award, Engineering Inspiration Award, and Rookie All Star Award?”
A18: This decision for this was made by FIRST NH, not FiM. FIRST considers these 3 awards to be “Culture Changing Awards” and wishes them to remain apart from the rest of the competition awards.
FiM disagrees with this position, and we feel that the decision not to award points for these items actually degrades the prestige of these awards relative to the others by making them worth nothing in our system.

Taken from Jim Zondag's FAQ's:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2804?

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by nukemknight

Team 103 is ranked 103 with 103 points...

That is the only occurrence of all three matching. Team 11 is ranked 11. No other team has the same number of points as their team number.

[Jim Zondag]

Originally Posted by stingray27

Is there anyway we can get FIRST to supply this information or put it somewhere online? I know it would be of great use for FIRST in Michigan, private applications and just to use in general. Possibly add it to the elimination schedule page on the FIRST information or FMS feed, or possibly organize the stations certain seeds are for their first matches, then randomize them after that. Anything would be nice....

I have asked FIRST to make this Draft Order data available on several occasions over the past 4 years. Nothing. Not sure if the requests ever got past Bill. We very much want this in Michigan since our District Rankings depend on the draft order. We could automate all the FiM standings, but we are missing this one slice of data from each event. The way it is now, We must manually enter this data each week.

I requested this again about 2 weeks ago. Frank Merrick immediately replied and requested a followup discussion after the CMP.
I think we will finally get this issue resolved for 2014.

[CrazyMohawk]

I was shocked to see a NW team at number 2 but very happy as well. Go 955.

Also good to see we're 39th.

[Boe]

wow awesome we managed to sneak into the top 100 and thats without our planned 7 disk for champs

[Ed Law]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

FIRST has the data, but doesn't publish it. Ed Law does a good job guessing the ambiguous cases using OPR in his scouting spreadsheet, but that's not that great when you get to the 6th, 7th, and 8th seeds with the serpentine. As others said, I used the alliance selection thread, and supplemented with other sources when needed.

I need to make a correction here. As Joe pointed out in my post http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...82&postcount=3 from last year, I do not use the alliance selection results from CD. To me even one error is too many. However it is not true that I guess the alliance selection based on OPR. I cannot image anybody would do that. The spreadsheet make the determination automatically when it is clear. For example if team A as alliance captain 2 pick team B who is alliance captain 8, then we know for sure that team B is #2 pick and the team they pick later in 2nd round is #15 pick. If team A as alliance captain 2 pick team C in first round and team D in second round and team C is not an alliance captain, there is no way to tell which team in an alliance was picked first or second, the program will list the higher ranked one as # 2 or 15 pick, and the lower ranked team as # 15 or 2 pick.

Jim Zondag has been asking FIRST to provide this information for the last few years. It looks like FIRST is finally listening.

Joe, thank you for doing this. Now any region who wants to do what if a certain group of teams is in a district and see the ranking, they can easily do it with your spreadsheet by selecting those teams only.