Team Update - 4/16/13

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Todd

I believe they're referring to the 1/3 field setups that were available at many regionals (Pine Trees, and CTR at the least), in which case it'd be as useful as a practice field is at any of those regionals, with the addition of two full practice fields for mock matches.

It doesn't say anything about a pyramid in these areas, only goals. Without a pyramid plopped down the proper distance away from the goals and discs placed in the right spots underneath and at midfield, it's going to be hard to test what our team needs to test.

Still, just having goals will certainly be useful to a large number of teams.

[Siri]

Do we know if these tethered fields will be open Wednesday, or does the Hours of Operation section apply to both types?


I wish FIRST would offer some kind of rationalization (or warning/response period) when they make changes like this. Running matches is not what most teams I know look for on the practice field. If there's no pyramid on the tethered fields, we'll be lucky if we can climb at all.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Siri

I wish FIRST would offer some kind of rationalization (or warning/response period) when they make changes like this. Running matches is not what most teams I know look for on the practice field. If there's no pyramid on the tethered fields, we'll be lucky if we can climb at all.

Now I'm really hoping we don't have any problems with our climber because right now it doesn't look like we have an area to test in and view it up close to diagnose problems.

Why does FIRST do this?

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Jared341

It doesn't say anything about a pyramid in these areas, only goals. Without a pyramid plopped down the proper distance away from the goals and discs placed in the right spots underneath and at midfield, it's going to be hard to test what our team needs to test.

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Now I'm really hoping we don't have any problems with our climber because right now it doesn't look like we have an area to test in and view it up close to diagnose problems.

Suggest watching Q625, though I'm not expecting an answer.

I also asked Q626 (if everyone agrees, can we practice individually for 15 minutes), but I think we know the answer there. Actually, I don't even know how hard it is to switch the FMS between these two options.


Dustin,
Yes, that's what I'm referencing, but I don't see anything on there that indicates those hours of operation apply to the tethered "regional practice field goal setups". As written, it seems they only apply to what FIRST has capitalized as "Practice Fields", which are the full-size, wireless practice match fields. I'll work under the assumption they're the same hours to be safe, but it'd be nice to know for planning Wednesday.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by Siri

I don't even know how hard it is to switch the FMS between these two options.

You would have to modify the time allowed for a match, this was my first year as scorekeeper and I seem to remember an option to do so. At MN 10K Lakes we had a long exhibition match where some news crews took videos of a couple robots before the venue opened one morning. I believe it was relatively easy to do so.

[Wetzel]

I suspect that the practice field setup will end up being a net plus for teams testing autonomous pickup/defense modes. I also suspect that team members will be pressed into service to reset the practice field whilst their team is out there.

Brandon - spend that hour in line making sure that your pneumatics are closed and charged. The match cycles on the competition field are going to be tight, you start a match with an open pneumatic valve and it will be a greater loss than a practice field match.

Wetzel

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

Brandon - spend that hour in line making sure that your pneumatics are closed and charged. The match cycles on the competition field are going to be tight, you start a match with an open pneumatic valve and it will be a greater loss than a practice field match.

Wetzel

I agree, I just think part of the key advantage of a practice field is being able to adjust and look at things as they happen instead of just plowing through 2 minutes without knowing exactly what's going on.

For example, if you are jammed- you want to be able to freeze time, run out to the robot and see EXACTLY what's going on. Ditto for 30 point climbers who want to see why a hook won't latch, etc.


Just running matches does take away a good portion of that troubleshooting aspect of practice time.

-Brando

[joelg236]

I don't think this will work well. A majority of the time that we need the practise field, its because of things that we specifically could not figure out without a close look at the robot. I just know the practise field will be a long wait all day too. I couldn't imagine having to practise climbing 30...

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I agree, I just think part of the key advantage of a practice field is being able to adjust and look at things as they happen instead of just plowing through 2 minutes without knowing exactly what's going on.

For example, if you are jammed- you want to be able to freeze time, run out to the robot and see EXACTLY what's going on. Ditto for 30 point climbers who want to see why a hook won't latch, etc.


Just running matches does take away a good portion of that troubleshooting aspect of practice time.

-Brando

Now comes the tricky part: how do you do choose when to freeze time when you have 6 teams out there?

I saw some seriously questionable choices made by teams on the practice field this year - shooting long distance shots over other teams, one robot climbing whilst another team took their robot down from 30 point land, robots driving into people on other teams. I know the UL guys noted a lot of these things and I bet there was a report with recommendations made. I miss the days when we could put one person on the field with the robot during Thursday at regionals, but I understand the concern with other robots out there.

Adjusting the match time in FMS is not difficult.

Wetzel

[PayneTrain]

"Man, you know what we're missing at CMP?"

"More things controlled by the FMS?!"

"YOU'RE DARN RIGHT!"

-Probable conversation I wish was held in alternate reality where the FMS was actually not a source of delays and tears.

[mlantry]

i could see people who want to climb 30 on the practice field avoiding it in fear that their robot will fall if the climber isn't perfect or was added for championship.

[connor.worley]

Well, this looks useless.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

Now comes the tricky part: how do you do choose when to freeze time when you have 6 teams out there?

I saw some seriously questionable choices made by teams on the practice field this year - shooting long distance shots over other teams, one robot climbing whilst another team took their robot down from 30 point land, robots driving into people on other teams. I know the UL guys noted a lot of these things and I bet there was a report with recommendations made. I miss the days when we could put one person on the field with the robot during Thursday at regionals, but I understand the concern with other robots out there.

Adjusting the match time in FMS is not difficult.

Wetzel

This is my point exactly. You can't do this stuff with 6 teams operating as a practice match.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

Now comes the tricky part: how do you do choose when to freeze time when you have 6 teams out there?

I saw some seriously questionable choices made by teams on the practice field this year - shooting long distance shots over other teams, one robot climbing whilst another team took their robot down from 30 point land, robots driving into people on other teams. I know the UL guys noted a lot of these things and I bet there was a report with recommendations made. I miss the days when we could put one person on the field with the robot during Thursday at regionals, but I understand the concern with other robots out there.

Adjusting the match time in FMS is not difficult.

Wetzel

I too agree the practice field wasn't the best managed at several events. At Pine Tree when we were testing our climber there were two other robots testing their shooters on the either side of the pryamid. Not the safest setup but all teams on the field were asked prior if we we could share a slot and we agreed.

Champs would be best setup with the following:

1. Two full practice fields for tethered operation (two for each division just like we always have had).

2. Several carpeted practice spaces that could include the following setup (One set of goals with pyramid spaced to field specs and next to it a stand alone pyramid for climb testing).


Now I am all for radio practice matches those are good and if FIRST/the community saw a need for these I would recommend one full practice field for tethered testing and one full practice field for full practice matches (run one match at a time for quick turn over of teams) AND increase the number of option 2 above so more teams can do tethered testing.

The reasons Brandon has mentioned are the reasons we need tethered field testing. The purpose is to diagnose while operating. If not how will you know what to fix or where your problems lie. Most of the time we have issues in a regular match we say, "Straight to the practice field/pit to test this" not, "Lets get right back in line for another match".

[Wetzel]

One of the things that bugs me is that way FMS and the robot interface is different than the practice field without FMS. I had a number of teams at events this year that we could identify a problem but would be unable to replicate it on the practice field. I got the CSAs involved and we would eventually hammer it out. It sucked not being able to run a test match with FMS outside of qual rounds to try and identify the cause/test potential solutions. It's frustrating. This will help with that, but I suspect that most of the teams that made it to Championship will have had those problems knocked out at prior events.

Wetzel