2013 Championship Curie Division

[Adam Freeman]

Originally Posted by 404'd

One of the mentors obviously was not happy with the red card that was called on their alliance. I believe security/police were called but I don't think anything else happened after the situation.

Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.

For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.

No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.

1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.

[1975Flyers]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[404'd]

Originally Posted by Adam Freeman

Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.

For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.

No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.

1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.

Okay, I wasn't quite sure of the situation, I had just noticed that someone else had posted about it and I had heard similar. My mistake, that is why I deleted the post. Didn't mean any harm, I was interested in hearing the full story as well.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by iVanDuzer

G27 does not state the exact method used to interfere with the pyramid. The use of the word "interfere" suggests that a robot can affect the opposing pyramid in other ways besides direct contact. I would say pushing another robot into the pyramid is one such way of initiating contact with the pyramid.
[...]
When it comes to climbing, there's a lot of overlap between G27 and G30. If the refs were going to call one of these fouls, they should have called both. Since G27 was not called, I am left thinking that the climb bonus should not have been added for an affected climb.

And as I said...

G27 DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS SITUATION. Stop trying to confuse the issue.

G30 governs contact with a robot that is in contact with its own pyramid. G27 governs contact with an opponents pyramid. Do both of them contain a provision that if a climb is interfered with, the climb bonus is applied? Yes. Does that mean that if a climb is interfered with, both are triggered? No. That's like saying that an intentional tip in eliminations is the same as arriving with an uninspected robot in quals.

If they had called both fouls, this is the total foul points assessed: 40 points on two technicals, 30 points on a climb bonus (can't do two), and a red card. That's an awful lot for pushing a robot into its own tower, don't you think? And they'd have to come up with a far-fetched reasoning to apply G27 on top of G30--which you are doing--that wouldn't stand up under scrutiny and would cause quite a few questions. Both rules have their own penalties. It is quite possible to cause one without triggering a violation of the other.

The later penalty was called as a G27 (and according to the affected alliance, shouldn't have been called as anything). This one was called as a G30. Not the same call.

[OrangeCataclysm]

This is from the perspective of one of 862's pit crew, not a driver or coach, but I did get a very close look at what happened in both the semi-finals and the finals.

In the semis, I doubt I need to explain what happened, and despite intentions, I knew the 50 point fowl would be called. I've seen that fowl been called at least twice and Michigan, but none so blatant. I'm not saying 967 intended to interfere with the climb, but they definitely pushed 148 too far, and incurred the penalty nonetheless.

I can't say I'm too happy about winning the semis on penalty points, but what happens happens. I apologize to the number 4 alliance for their misfortune, but a call had to be made all the same.

As for the red card incident, it was actually our team that incurred the red card. As a spectator down at the field, I saw our robot run over 1918's ground collector while they were touching the pyramid. One of the drivers told me he was pushed into 1918 when that happened, and in my opinion, our action had very little to do with their fall from the pyramid.

But: The refs needed to be consistent. They already called 967 on affecting the outcome of a climb, and since 1918 fell, they carded us on having caused it through the contact. Our main driver seemed pretty beat up about the whole thing, and seeing the opposing alliance argue in our favor was one of the best examples of gracious professionalism I've ever seen. I see little point to the red card because the number three alliance would have won without it. But it was a tough decision, and I applaud the refs for making a call, even if it was such an unpopular one.

Thank you to both the number 3, and 4 alliance members for being good sports about the whole situation.

[404'd]

Originally Posted by OrangeCataclysm

Thank you to both the number 3, and 4 alliance members for being good sports about the whole situation.

I think I can speak for everybody in saying both situations made curie division memorable for those involved this year.

[audietron]

This is the whole semifinal 1-3 showing how great all 6 teams played.
the entire team of 967 would like to congratulate 1678,148, & 862 for there great performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR39_...ature=youtu.be

[CalTran]

Just a quick note - assuming that each division, each year, has a 1/4 chance of winning everything (Obviously not true but simpler for math), the Curie Curse had ~3.2% chance of surviving.

[Nemo]

Some thoughts. It'll be a long post.

Thanks to 2056 and 3990 for being great partners. Getting picked by 2056 in the first round was like winning the lottery - I did not see that coming.

Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on winning the division and making it to Einstein - you guys deserved it.

Playing in the elimination rounds was really, really exciting. The quarters were all nail biters. Small things made a big difference. That alliance was extremely tough, and kudos to the alliance captain 1310 for putting themselves on my map as a pretty amazing team (I was ignorant of them previously, but I'm sure they're quite well known to everybody who's seen them in action before).

Here is my take on the semifinals. It was pretty obviously necessary for us to play defense on 148, because otherwise they score 100+ points on us. Even if we defend them, we end up letting points through and relying on allies to make up the difference. But defending 148 is pretty tough, because the defender is constantly riding a thin line between committing penalties versus allowing a bunch of points while not scoring any. It's a really tough job for a driver, and one has to react very quickly. Having watched our driver all year at three events, I can say that he has done a phenomenal job. Often enough I've watched other robots and wondered what the driver's plan was or if they have one. Our driver makes really fast decisions and has the skills to execute, and he can switch tactics very quickly as things develop. There have been some pretty impressive moments. Anyway, the defense on 148 was a really tough challenge, and he actually got the better of them in Match 1 (although they still scored a number of discs). He came pretty close to committing a foul at the end of that match, but he pulled off a clean late bump when they weren't yet touching the pyramid, costing them a bit more time. The difference between winning and losing was razor thing. In Match 2, 148 got around us early enough to get off the 40 point climb, and that was decisive. I can imagine that in Match 3 he didn't want to let that happen again. From the stands, we were really tense watching those last 40 seconds of the match after 148 loaded their red discs, knowing that it might be the difference. When the time clicked down to about 20 seconds and they hadn't started climbing, I starting to get pretty excited since it appeared we had it won. Then a few seconds later we saw that hit, and we were pretty sure we had just lost the match. Basically it was a driving error that cost us in the end, and I don't think that's any sort of insult to our driver, who was amazing all season long. Had we won, he would have had to try to walk the same tightrope with 67, and who knows what would have happened. It would have been fun to see. As for the foul call, I was not at all surprised by the 50 point call. I think it could have gone either way, but I don't fault the ref at all, and we put ourselves at the mercy of that call by putting on that late hit.

Getting picked by 2056 in a division that had been splintered by declines was a better situation than I could have imagined had I tried to dream up a best case scenario. Sometimes getting to Einstein seems like an impossible dream. Losing this chance on a penalty carried a pretty big sting, so it will take a little while for that to wear off. When it does, we will definitely look back on this season and know that it was our best yet. I wish we could have helped 2056 get their first win, especially after events last year that shall not be spoken of.

This season has been pretty grueling. We had a rough build season, focusing a TON of resources and energy on our 30 point climber. That includes all of our time right up to the KC regional. After a REALLY grueling KC event where we constantly reinvented the robot, we decided to abandon the climber. We were a pure cycler by the end of KC, installing the 10 pt climber for Minnesota. After catching a few breaks and winning in MN, we knew we needed more than a shooter and a 10 point hang to have a real shot at the Championship. So we upgraded to 2 speed drive and put the extending blocker on. It was quite a journey. Champs qualifiers were pretty amazing - most matches were quite close with lots of good allies and opponents. Even if we hadn't been picked, I would have been fairly satisfied with the event. All things considered, advancing to the semis for the first time and being on a great alliance was a really great prize for us. It makes us want to come back for more.

Now it's time to focus on some of the other burning issues, like how to get more funding, how to be more organized, how to recruit more girls, how to find more space, how to get more mentors, how to be more visible, and....

[SciBorg Dave]

In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?

[Jeremy Germita]

Originally Posted by SciBorg Dave

In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?

I was on the arena floor next to the alliance pits behind the Curie field, attending to 399's bot as we were #4 in line in the backup pool.

2996 had issues in 2-1 with CAN and Jaguars. That incapacitated them and the alliance called the backup. As per tournament rules, 1138 Eagle Engineering, the highest ranked team not selected became their backup robot. Also as per tournament rules, team 2996 would not be allowed to continue play even if they were able to repair the situation.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Just a quick note - assuming that each division, each year, has a 1/4 chance of winning everything (Obviously not true but simpler for math), the Curie Curse had ~3.2% chance of surviving.

The Curie Curse had a 75% chance of surviving this year. The Curie Curse surviving this long has had a 3.2% chance of having happened.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by SciBorg Dave

In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?

From what I was told by a friend of mine involved with 2996, they got rammed into the pyramid really hard in their last quarter final match and that mangled up their robot pretty bad, to the point where they couldn't continue.

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Some thoughts. It'll be a long post.

*long post*

You guys played incredibly well, I was really impressed with your alliance, I feel really bad that so many matches were decided by penalty points but that's just how things played out and I hope we did a good job representing all of the incredible teams from the Curie Division on Einstein. You guys really gave us a run for our money.

[hionwind]

On behalf of team 1678, I would like to congratulate all of the great teams that competed in the Curie division this year. We had an amazing run and were honored to have made it to the Einstein stage.

Thank you to teams 148 and 862 for completing our awesome alliance. You are both a class act and worked flawlessly with us to execute the game strategy.

Also, a big thank you to all of the teams that competed against us in the elimination rounds. 103, 2168 and 4564 put up some strong resistance in the quarter finals and kept us on our toes. 2056, 967 and 3990 was a scary opponent to have to face in the semis. And 4814, 67 and 1918 took us through a roller-coaster of emotions in the finals.

I want to especially thank team 67 for your supportive comments about our alliance and for clarifying the incident that led to our red card.

It was a dream come true for our team to compete on Einstein and putting up the high score (233) for the Einstein matches was an added bonus.

Congratulations to 1477, 610 and 1241. Your alliance was a scoring machine and you thoroughly deserve to be crowned world champs.