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Unread 28-04-2013, 19:13
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
Special shout out to Jondarr Bradshaw, the best announcer in FIRST. I'm glad they let him announce on Einstein this year, he really has an amazing voice.

I think all the congratulations have already been said. One word about the alliances that made it to Einstein and have in previous years:

They were true alliances.

Other alliances may have had the best robots but it seems to me that the ones that win Einstein are composed of not just two of the very best and a good one but a true power team as the third bot. How 610, 1519, 862, 1640 fell to the second round is stupendous.

It's interesting to take a look at the pedigree of each of the Einstein bots and where they were in the draft:

Archimedes 2nd alliance: 33 (3 districts), 469 (3 districts and MSC), 1519 (1 regional) (1 State Championship, 6 districts, 1 regional)

Curie 1st alliance: 1678 (1 regional, 148 (2 regionals), 862 (2 districts) (2 districts, 3 regionals)

Newton 3rd alliance: 303 (no wins), 3476 (no wins), 1640 (MAR cmp as 16th pick) (1 Region Championship)

Galileo 5th alliance: 1241 (no wins), 1477 (1 win [almost didn't qualify]), 610 (1 win) (2 regional wins)

The combined OPR pre-championship of each alliance using best OPR was [in order of pick]:
Archimedes: 74+92+64= 230
Curie: 46+71+68= 185
Newton: 47+50+43= 140
Galileo: 55+77+63= 195

So Archimedes was highly favored to win but Galileo was close enough. Also note how in none of the alliances did the alliance captain have the best OPR prior to Championships.
Sorry, but quoting the pre-champ OPR for judgement of each alliance...
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  #92   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-04-2013, 19:19
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

The teamwork required to synchronize trips to and from the feeder station with three cyclers still astounds me. The rotation of defense was perfect, this was a strategy not expected (no true defender to block an FCS, as 610 never used their blocker and 1477 was just raising their shooter). Then the attempts to sut down 1114's climb (unfortunately got several foul points in the first match, but at least they recognized the threat). How 610 dropped that low in the draft, I have no idea but that just sealed the deal to gt three amazing bots like themselves on the same alliance. I wonder how IRI will turn out to be...
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Unread 28-04-2013, 19:20
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXTGeek View Post
Sorry, but quoting the pre-champ OPR for judgement of each alliance...
Oh I in no way believe it to be a reliable indicator of who should have won once they hit Einstein. Purely from a 'who could have predicted this!' standpoint, I think they are just interesting numbers and directly comparable to team performance in the regional/district season.

Especially in the case of Code Orange, I have no doubt that their pre-cmp OPR was highly unrepresentative of their actual performance.
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Unread 28-04-2013, 19:29
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXTGeek View Post
Sorry, but quoting the pre-champ OPR for judgement of each alliance...
Using the OPR's recorded in the FRC Tracker app (This is all from CMP), I got the following total combined OPR's for each Einstein alliance:

Archimedes: 179.9

Curie: 189.9

Galileo: 146.7

Newton: 185.9

Obviously, OPR told us nothing about anything at all, as usual.
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Unread 28-04-2013, 19:36
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek R View Post
Using the OPR's recorded in the FRC Tracker app (This is all from CMP), I got the following total combined OPR's for each Einstein alliance:

Archimedes: 179.9

Curie: 189.9

Galileo: 146.7

Newton: 185.9

Obviously, OPR told us nothing about anything at all, as usual.
Except, that all of the teams on Einstien are excellent, and that it really was anyone's game.
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  #96   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-04-2013, 22:03
Jonathan Norris Jonathan Norris is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek R View Post
Using the OPR's recorded in the FRC Tracker app (This is all from CMP), I got the following total combined OPR's for each Einstein alliance:

Archimedes: 179.9

Curie: 189.9

Galileo: 146.7

Newton: 185.9

Obviously, OPR told us nothing about anything at all, as usual.
I believe our alliance had the 4th lowest combined Champs OPR of all created Alliances... I think that tells you that scouting is alot more then just stats, strategy is just as important.

Now to try and put my thoughts together on this weekend...
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Last edited by Jonathan Norris : 28-04-2013 at 23:06. Reason: Thanks Joe!
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Unread 29-04-2013, 00:43
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DampRobot View Post
Except, that all of the teams on Einstien are excellent, and that it really was anyone's game.
It really was, that was the most exciting battle on Einstein I've ever heard of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris View Post
I believe our alliance had the 4th lowest combined Champs OPR of all created Alliances... I think that tells you that scouting is alot more then just stats, strategy is just as important.

Now to try and put my thoughts together on this weekend...
Very true, I could not believe that you 3 ended up on the same alliance, every one of your robots was amazing at everything it did, you all ran cycles at break-neck speed and had incredible scoring consistency, you guys had one heck of an alliance.
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  #98   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-04-2013, 10:17
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Re: Einstein 2013

Thanks team 100 for the shout out. In our early days, you were an inspiration to us and we still have a very high regard for your team. It was a great honor for our team to be able to compete on Einstein and also to be joined by such class teams as 148 and 862. We look forward to seeing you guys at Cal Games.
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Unread 29-04-2013, 11:01
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Re: Einstein 2013

Sorry, what is a rubber match?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek R View Post
I was amazed at how two teams were able to put 254 points up in that match, confused me for a bit...however, no one made it easy for these guys to win, a rubber match in every single round? And they had to battle all kinds of bots, from 30/50 point climbers to full-court shooters. Very impressive, well-rounded alliance.
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Unread 29-04-2013, 11:06
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chantal68 View Post
Sorry, what is a rubber match?
It's the deciding match when the series is tied (in our case, the third match of an eliminations pairing). The term actually comes from a card game called bridge.
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Last edited by vhcook : 29-04-2013 at 11:07. Reason: wrong word
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Unread 29-04-2013, 11:09
chantal68 chantal68 is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

I appreciate the explanation. My concern with this is the psychological boon to G and bust to N. That makes a difference even though it's virtually impossible to calculate and certainly had to affect the 3rd match.

I can accept the possibility of human error, however it goes back to the whole issue of the difficulty of scoring this year. It's been problematic from the start and I hope that FIRST will work hard to improve a scoring method for whatever next year's game turns out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Yes, they did indeed hand count directly after our match. The error wasn't in counting but in adding.

Frank explained it to us personally during finals. They put those baskets up, raise the center of the goal to empty the discs, and then count each basket separately (subtract auton discs later). The two baskets for us were 20 and 26, but instead of writing 46 the scorer inverted it and wrote 64. They didn't recount the discs (because they didn't find it until way later...ouch), Frank just showed us the physical paper on which they'd scribbled:

20
26
64

It hurt (a lot more than it would have otherwise), but there was no doubt and no legal reason to replay. Of course, explaining that to crying students is another issue

Galileo deserved it though. They were both fair wins, and personally couldn't think of a better alliance to lose to. Everyone was very gracious. Congratulations, guys!
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Unread 29-04-2013, 11:11
chantal68 chantal68 is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

Ha, yes! Is there a like button for this post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarr View Post
I hope so. Frank has been very forthcoming thus far. On the bright side, this is far from the debacle last year. Honest mistakes happen. Although, at a competition focused on inspiring students in the areas of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, a basic arithmetic error (if that's what it was) is not particularly inspiring. The important thing is that the lessons that can be learned, are learned, and the appropriate safeguards are put in place for the future.
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Unread 29-04-2013, 11:13
chantal68 chantal68 is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhcook View Post
It's the deciding match when the series is tied (in our case, the third match of an eliminations pairing). The term actually comes from a card game called bridge.
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Unread 29-04-2013, 13:17
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_L View Post
It wasn't a replay, it was match 3.



My question is, where did they get the score from? The field has been cleared and there was a match inbetween. In all fairness, the second match should have been replayed.

Side note, this is Einstein. If we can hand count at Hatboro why can't we hand count at Einstein?
Thank you. we tried and tried to ask where they were getting the score from and they would not give it to us. To me the fair thing would have been to have a re-match. because the scores do not add up
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  #105   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-04-2013, 13:40
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
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Re: Einstein 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterteam3476 View Post
Thank you. we tried and tried to ask where they were getting the score from and they would not give it to us. To me the fair thing would have been to have a re-match. because the scores do not add up
There would be no replay. It was a mathematical error.

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