6 CIMs and 4 MiniCIMs - Will they stay?

The ability to use 6 CIM motors and 4 MiniCIM motors were a blessing this year, and the majority of teams took advantage of them. However, it was brought to my attention that, like 2010, the extra CIMs from 2013 may not be legal the next year. Personally, I would love for FIRST to continue the use of 6 CIM motors and 4 Mini CIMs; Teams could build 6-CIM single speed gearboxes to compete with the shifters, use the motors to power their shooters, climbers, etc.

What are your opinions on the motor allowance this year? Would you like to see this trend continue for future games? Do you think it's probable that FIRST will continue allowing these extra motors?

[JeffersonMartin]

I really hope they do. 6 CIM drive trains definitely make matches more interesting, and they add the ability to use CIMs on things other than the drive train, without sacrificing to much pushing ability.

[Michael Hill]

I don't think AndyMark would have put that much time engineering a 3-CIM gearbox if it were a 1-year thing. Just my thought.

[Jeffy]

I sure hope so. The fact that the 10 most powerful motors this year had the same mounting and shafts was a blessing.

[Mark Sheridan]

I hope it stays. We used only 6 motors this year thanks to a PTO gearbox, so I want this rule around next year so I can actually use it.

[MichaelBick]

I think the motor rules made the game extra interesting. That said, I'm torn. I think so many powerful motors added to the game, though they also made it easier. I really hope we get at least 2 Mini-CIMs and 4 CIMs next year, but beyond that I feel it is a bit excessive(remember we still have 8 more 500 series motors).

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

I don't think AndyMark would have put that much time engineering a 3-CIM gearbox if it were a 1-year thing. Just my thought.

Before they allowed 6 CIMs, several teams used to use FP motors as a 5th and 6th motor in their drivetrains due to similar specs.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Wing

Before they allowed 6 CIMs, several teams used to fry FP motors as a 5th and 6th motor in their drivetrains due to similar specs.

Fixed that for you. FPs in the drivetrain will probably end up running at or near stall quite a bit, and they don't like stalling.

[nerdherdmember]

I talked with the people in AndyMark's sponsor stand about them releasing more 3 motor gearboxes and was told that FIRST had not given them any signs about whether or not 6 CIMs would be staying. It does seem logical that at the least some MiniCIMs will remain, as IFI has made a significant investment into that motor, so 4 CIM 2 MiniCIM drive will most likely remain an option.

[DampRobot]

Let me just say this: 6-CIM drivetrains can break the main 120 amp breaker if they are stalled. With a 6-CIM drive, you're essentially giving good defenders a way literally shut your robot down.

As for continuing to have insane amounts of power like we did this year? I sure hope it continues, but I certainly wouldn't take this much raw power for granted. It obviously depends on the game, but I'd bet on 4 CIMs and 2 Mini-CIMs for next year.

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Let me just say this: 6-CIM drivetrains can break the main 120 amp breaker if they are stalled. With a 6-CIM drive, you're essentially giving good defenders a way literally shut your robot down.

As for continuing to have insane amounts of power like we did this year? I sure hope it continues, but I certainly wouldn't take this much raw power for granted. It obviously depends on the game, but I'd bet on 4 CIMs and 2 Mini-CIMs for next year.

Well you still have to get your gear ratio and traction correct. Having extra motors gives you a few more variables to play with.

[TheMadCADer]

Mini-CIMs and BAG motors are definitely here to stay since they're pretty much replacements for the FPs and Globes. I think the CIM count could vary between 4-6 from year to year, though I do like having more than just 4. However, chances are that we'll continue to only see extra CIMs in years with climbing/hanging endgames.

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Let me just say this: 6-CIM drivetrains can break the main 120 amp breaker if they are stalled. With a 6-CIM drive, you're essentially giving good defenders a way literally shut your robot down.

As for continuing to have insane amounts of power like we did this year? I sure hope it continues, but I certainly wouldn't take this much raw power for granted. It obviously depends on the game, but I'd bet on 4 CIMs and 2 Mini-CIMs for next year.

I know a few teams who made a single-speed 6-CIM drivetrain and never had any problems that I've seen (one that comes directly to mind is 973).

[F22Rapture]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Let me just say this: 6-CIM drivetrains can break the main 120 amp breaker if they are stalled. With a 6-CIM drive, you're essentially giving good defenders a way literally shut your robot down.

So can 2 CIMs, or 4 CIMs. As long as you don't gear too high for the amount of torque you have available (which will increase with the number of CIMs), your drivetrain should stay traction-limited and never stall.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by EricH

Fixed that for you. FPs in the drivetrain will probably end up running at or near stall quite a bit, and they don't like stalling.

I'm not sure about this, but there was a discussion and quite a few teams came out in support of this. I think the argument was along the lines of, "they end up doing more work than stalling so it's fine." I don't quite remember.

Either way, I've heard of quite a bit of success from this. At the very least, it's worth exploring.

- Sunny G.