Paper Airplanes

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

On the cleaning up part - those paper airplanes are jobs. Less cleaning may save some FIRST funds, but it's not a burden for the cleaners. It would be different if FIRST volunteers were required.

Really??
Wow... I bet your parents like cleaning up after you as well.

[Jibri Wright]

I think the idea of paper airplanes is pretty cool. This was my first time at Nationals and seeing all of the airplanes trying to make it onto the field gave our team a little bit of suspense between matches. Our team even got a few planes near the field (and wrote our team number on them ). I personally didn't throw any airplanes when speakers or matches were going on cause i thought it was rude, but it is honestly something i'm going to remember about Nationals.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Jibri Wright

I think the idea of paper airplanes is pretty cool. This was my first time at Nationals and seeing all of the airplanes trying to make it onto the field gave our team a little bit of suspense between matches. Our team even got a few planes near the field (and wrote our team number on them ). I personally didn't throw any airplanes when speakers or matches were going on cause i thought it was rude, but it is honestly something i'm going to remember about Nationals.

Please read the first line of my signature.

[Oblarg]

Edit: Bayesian updating in light of new information (in the form of posts) has rendered the previous content of this post obsolete. Please ignore.

[Libby K]

I think the airplane throwing needs to stop. I never remember it being a problem before 2011.

It's disrespectful to the arena staff since they have to pick them all up.
It's disrespectful to the field crew because they have to constantly be on alert for them hitting the field.
It's disrespectful to the VIPs and speakers because you're acting like pieces of paper are more important than they are.
It's disrespectful to each other - I saw more airplanes go into other sections of the stands than the dome floor. People probably got hit more than you think.
It's disrespectful to FIRST staff because you're ripping up the materials they worked very hard to give you (programs, maps, etc) and using them as, essentially, trash.

I'd like to share a horror story - and yeah, this is personal. Deal with it.

I was down on the floor, as I was speaking during the ceremony. So I got to see quite a few airplanes.

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

My father - Dean's older brother? He was a huge part of the FIRST community. He died this September, and the program page with his face and his story should have been at least somewhat respected and not used for that purpose. None of the things FIRST works so hard to create should have been, but that one is very personal to me. I was absolutely horrified.

Have some class. Airplanes need to stop.
It's disrespectful, it's annoying, and it's all the things FIRST and its community don't need to be.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Libby K

I think the airplane throwing needs to stop. I never remember it being a problem before 2011.


It's disrespectful to the VIPs and speakers because you're acting like pieces of paper are more important than they are.

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

Talking about the VIPs on the floor.

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

So what about the guest speakers from major FIRST sponsors who were giving speeches and helping present awards? The VIPs in the suites are one thing. The VIPs on stage are representatives of their companies. Do you think they felt respected having pieces of paper tossed at and around them? While they were up there, on stage, recognizing the work we do and acknowledging FIRST as a whole. Were they adequately respected?

I don't think so.

On a side note to Libby, I am so sorry your family and your father's legacy were disrespected like that. The Bart Kamen memorial sticker is proudly represented on our robot, as it is for many teams.

[JesseK]

I don't remember mass paper airplanes prior to 2011, and I've been to champs every year since 2007.

Let me preface this by stating that we really do need to get rid of the airplanes. It shows an utter disrespect to people we really appreciate.

The reality is, the airplane issue is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, many people disrespected the speakers and people on the floor by throwing things at them. On the other hand, the excitement of Einstein and Closing Ceremonies was totally annihilated by the fact that the whole process took four hours. For many people who showed up earlier than 3pm to get good seats, it was 5+ hours.

I was down in the lower stands, section 130. I concur that the airplane throwing needs to be addressed. However, the length and boredom of Closing Ceremonies is the root cause (not starting on time, going much longer than expected). Many FLL events bring in the drama club to keep the kids entertained for 30-45 minutes while the judging process wraps up. Along the same lines, FIRST could do something for Closing Ceremonies. Perhaps in keeping with the "Make it Loud" theme, a small entertainment event could start at 3pm on Saturday.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I don't remember mass paper airplanes prior to 2011, and I've been to champs every year since 2007.

The reality is, the airplane issue is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, many people disrespected the speakers and people on the floor by throwing things at them. On the other hand, the excitement of Einstein and Closing Ceremonies was totally annihilated by the fact that the whole process took four hours. For many people who showed up earlier than 3pm to get good seats, it was 5+ hours.

I was down in the lower stands, section 130. I concur that the airplane throwing needs to be addressed (in the very least, no more sharp edges!). However, the length and boredom of Closing Ceremonies is the root cause (not starting on time, going much longer than expected). Many FLL events bring in the drama club to keep the kids entertained for 30-45 minutes while the judging process wraps up. Along the same lines, FIRST could do something for Closing Ceremonies. Perhaps in keeping with the "Make it Loud" theme, a small entertainment event could start at 3pm on Saturday.

They could do a lot to alleviate the problem if they'd just do the following:

1) Give Dean Kamen a reasonable time limit for his speech, and make him stick to it.
2) Consolidate the giving of awards into a single ceremony, as is done for every regional competition I've ever been to and which I've never heard anyone complain about before. The awards-between-every-match system was horrid.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

They could do a lot to alleviate the problem if they'd just do the following:

1) Give Dean Kamen a reasonable time limit for his speech, and make him stick to it.
2) Consolidate the giving of awards into a single ceremony, as is done for every regional competition I've ever been to and which I've never heard anyone complain about before. The awards-between-every-match system was horrid.

1.You be the one to tell Mr. Kamen to limit the time of his speech. He started this event. He deserves as much time as he wants to get his point across. It our job to be a good audience.

2. The awards in between worked well. They took up the dead time between resets. If they hadn't done this it would have been even longer.

It's time for a bit of positive peer pressure next year. It's time to stop the planes before they start.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

1.You be the one to tell Mr. Kamen to limit the time of his speech. He started this event. He deserves as much time as he wants to get his point across. It our job to be a good audience.

That he is responsible for the event does not mean he is faultless - I respect the man greatly (how could I not, given what FRC has done for me?), but to not give frank criticism of his tendency towards over-long speech-making (to put it very lightly would verge on dishonesty. I don't think anyone who attended that event can say with a straight face that his speech during closing ceremonies was appropriately-lengthed.

2. The awards in between worked well. They took up the dead time between resets. If they hadn't done this it would have been even longer.

The total duration may have been longer, but the flow of the event would have been vastly improved. It killed the momentum and felt tedious.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

Also, I saw another thing being thrown form the upper arena. I don't know what it was but it was lit with led's and seemed to have some mass to it. What were they and why would you think it was cool to throw it into the crowd?

Somebody threw a frisbee from the stands during one of the speeches that landed next to our Einstein pit. That was bloody terrifying. It seemed to be an isolated incident, but I tucked everyone behind our pit carts for the duration anyway. Seriously, people, a frisbee?

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

They could do a lot to alleviate the problem if they'd just do the following:

1) Give Dean Kamen a reasonable time limit for his speech, and make him stick to it.
2) Consolidate the giving of awards into a single ceremony, as is done for every regional competition I've ever been to and which I've never heard anyone complain about before. The awards-between-every-match system was horrid.

Deans speeches have been quite a bit shorter than they have been in past. He knows he can be long winded and dry and has shortened them up, but he does have a message to get out and it can only be cut so short.

The awards used to be all in one setting. Everyone complained about that and about the dead time while setting up for the next match, so they broke the speeches and awards up into smaller pieces and use them in between matches.

You can't have it both ways.

I was disappointed by the conduct of students throwing paper planes and in their Mentors for not stopping it. I was concerned for people's safety. The stands are a place where safety glasses are not required (and should not need to be. its a place where you should be able to relax.)

I would have more to say about this, but couldn't possibly say it better than Libby did. It was embarrassing.

I fully expect this to result in another unenforceable rule, like noisemakers or saving seats, but enforceable or not, it has to be spelled out, apparently. We can't just rely on common sense.

I fully realize that we are dealing with 25,000 young adults. That means half adult and half child. Unfortunately, in situations like this, the child half often takes over. This is why we have Mentors or chaperones, in this case, to remind the students to stop and think before they act in situations like this. I'm disappointed more Mentors didn't step in here. I know, had my team been here, our teachers would have had the whole team on the bus and gone if they behaved like that.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

Which part of the suite? I sat on the left side, and there were several students/team members from a couple teams that were throwing them, but I didn't see a single VIP in my section throwing them.

With that said, many planes from the upper deck either looped under, or turned and ended up in the crowded VIP section. During the acceptance speech for the founders award, a plane looped from the upper deck back into the VIP section, and hit a VIP from Rockwell-Collins in the face. He (colorfully) made his feelings felt, and left. This happened multiple times, and my wife was hit with one that had several staples in the nose.

I wonder what impression we left with a high level employee from a major sponsor? While Dean was telling him how much he was appreciated, a student drilled him in the face with a paper airplane. I know which message would stick in my memory.