Paper Airplanes

[sanddrag]

This is embarrassing to our organization as a whole. In FIRST Robotics, we hold ourselves and our students to a higher standard than most, and this is not representative of the world-class organization we are. The practice needs to stopped.

In addition, throwing anything is a huge safety hazard. In Long Beach, there were beach balls going through the stands, and people were hitting them with all their might, rather violently. We nearly had expensive camera equipment topple over a railing due to an impact from a beach ball. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine a student toppling over the railing trying to save it.

If you want to fly airplanes go to the park. The rest of us are trying to enjoy a robotics competition.

[Libby K]

I think the airplane throwing needs to stop. I never remember it being a problem before 2011.

It's disrespectful to the arena staff since they have to pick them all up.
It's disrespectful to the field crew because they have to constantly be on alert for them hitting the field.
It's disrespectful to the VIPs and speakers because you're acting like pieces of paper are more important than they are.
It's disrespectful to each other - I saw more airplanes go into other sections of the stands than the dome floor. People probably got hit more than you think.
It's disrespectful to FIRST staff because you're ripping up the materials they worked very hard to give you (programs, maps, etc) and using them as, essentially, trash.

I'd like to share a horror story - and yeah, this is personal. Deal with it.

I was down on the floor, as I was speaking during the ceremony. So I got to see quite a few airplanes.

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

My father - Dean's older brother? He was a huge part of the FIRST community. He died this September, and the program page with his face and his story should have been at least somewhat respected and not used for that purpose. None of the things FIRST works so hard to create should have been, but that one is very personal to me. I was absolutely horrified.

Have some class. Airplanes need to stop.
It's disrespectful, it's annoying, and it's all the things FIRST and its community don't need to be.

[Patrick Flynn]

I think this has been pretty much beat to death but there are two largely differing views here and we're not going to change those. As someone who has sat in the 3rd deck and on the floor when the planes were being thrown I think I can weigh in here.

When I was in the 3rd deck it was awesome to see the planes raining down on the field and seeing which one would make it the farthest.

When I was sitting down on the floor it was terrifying to turn around and see all these planes being rained down on me. Now I think we all realize that many sponsors and heads of big companies are sitting down on the floor, there is no reason they should have to deal with these planes raining down on them.

The plane throwing needs to stop. Sure its cool for the people in the upper deck, But everyone down near the field should NOT have these planes getting thrown on them.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Patrick Flynn

When I was in the 3rd deck it was awesome to see the planes raining down on the field and seeing which one would make it the farthest.

When I was sitting down on the floor it was terrifying to turn around and see all these planes being rained down on me. Now I think we all realize that many sponsors and heads of big companies are sitting down on the floor, there is no reason they should have to deal with these planes raining down on them.

Fair enough, this is reasonable. Thank you for the added perspective.

[jvriezen]

Imagine how many people DID NOT throw planes -- either due to lack of paper (or running out), mentors telling them not to, or their own personal belief that they should not do so?

Now imagine if FIRST sanctioned airplanes at designated times in some sort of competition, and made this a 'tradition.' How many of the non-throwers would be come throwers? How many more airplanes would there be total? Per person? How many injuries?

I'd rather see FIRST provide a large beach ball in each pit and ask for the planes to stop. (and ask for beach balls to be stopped during matches and speeches, etc.)

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Libby K

I think the airplane throwing needs to stop. I never remember it being a problem before 2011.


It's disrespectful to the VIPs and speakers because you're acting like pieces of paper are more important than they are.

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

[Mike Starke]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

On the cleaning up part - those paper airplanes are jobs. Less cleaning may save some FIRST funds, but it's not a burden for the cleaners. It would be different if FIRST volunteers were required.

Originally Posted by class1234567

Is it really that bad. The arena staff has to clean the stands from drinks, food ,etc. Its their jobs so picking up paper is just part of it. Just imagine a full football game. They have to walk around the entire place cleaning. So what is a section of airplanes compared to that

Not a burden? The clean up crews are just as exhausted as we are. Let's be "Gracious", and give them less to do, eh? I wish I had taken a picture, but I ran out real quick to go to the bathroom between matches, and there were HUNDREDS of planes in piles against the wall on the floor of the dome. I couldn't believe how many there were.

Originally Posted by cgmv123

Not as bad as you might believe. The match just stops and is started over due to an "arena fault", just like what happened when the nets got clogged or the Rhoomba incident last year.

YEAHHH. Cause I'm sure the 6 teams on the field (and all of the crew) would just LOVE to stop the match, and have to go reset their robots because someone decided to throw an airplane.

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

They're also the ones not being hit with them...



So this was my first time being down in the VIP seating for Einstein. I, myself, got hit right above the eye, and on the arm. And that's just me. I'm sure the LEGO executive, our Armed Forces Representatives, and every other VERY IMPORTANT PERSON loved being hit/almost hit as well. Some of these people are getting their companies to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars (plus) to FIRST. To echo what Libby said, it's just down right disrespective on so many levels.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

Talking about the VIPs on the floor.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

Quite frankly, this stinks. As someone who also recently lost a dear friend, I'd be horrified to see people doing something like this with a tribute page to him.

Sorry that this added to your grief.

The sticker you gave me, that has a tribute to your dad, is proudly displayed on my clipboard. Every time that I look at it, I think about his legacy.

Airplanes look cool from above.
I got hit twice from flying debri (one a paper airplane and another a small frisbee) and it HURTS.

Hard to stop it from happening, but perhaps more people can just keep politely letting people know to not do it, and maybe it'll lesson. (Just like yelling a certain word at competition as you walk through the pits...)

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

So what about the guest speakers from major FIRST sponsors who were giving speeches and helping present awards? The VIPs in the suites are one thing. The VIPs on stage are representatives of their companies. Do you think they felt respected having pieces of paper tossed at and around them? While they were up there, on stage, recognizing the work we do and acknowledging FIRST as a whole. Were they adequately respected?

I don't think so.

On a side note to Libby, I am so sorry your family and your father's legacy were disrespected like that. The Bart Kamen memorial sticker is proudly represented on our robot, as it is for many teams.

[Headphones]

I agree that the current situation needs to be adressed. Being a rookie, sitting in the third level, it seemed to be all in good fun - fold an airplane, throw it, and hope that it made it a good distance.

After hearing the perspective of those who were being hit by the many, many failed airplanes, and the wide variety of other concerns with the practice, I recognize that it either needs to be stopped or conducted in a much more controlled manner, and would like to apologize for my participation.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I'm only commenting on this part of your post because its the only one that I think is incorrect as lots of VIPs in the VIP/Hospitality suite were making planes and throwing them, as well as the red PTC frisbees.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in any of your feelings/thoughts but the VIPs in the suite didn't seem to be feeling disrespected.

Which part of the suite? I sat on the left side, and there were several students/team members from a couple teams that were throwing them, but I didn't see a single VIP in my section throwing them.

With that said, many planes from the upper deck either looped under, or turned and ended up in the crowded VIP section. During the acceptance speech for the founders award, a plane looped from the upper deck back into the VIP section, and hit a VIP from Rockwell-Collins in the face. He (colorfully) made his feelings felt, and left. This happened multiple times, and my wife was hit with one that had several staples in the nose.

I wonder what impression we left with a high level employee from a major sponsor? While Dean was telling him how much he was appreciated, a student drilled him in the face with a paper airplane. I know which message would stick in my memory.

[JesseK]

I don't remember mass paper airplanes prior to 2011, and I've been to champs every year since 2007.

Let me preface this by stating that we really do need to get rid of the airplanes. It shows an utter disrespect to people we really appreciate.

The reality is, the airplane issue is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, many people disrespected the speakers and people on the floor by throwing things at them. On the other hand, the excitement of Einstein and Closing Ceremonies was totally annihilated by the fact that the whole process took four hours. For many people who showed up earlier than 3pm to get good seats, it was 5+ hours.

I was down in the lower stands, section 130. I concur that the airplane throwing needs to be addressed. However, the length and boredom of Closing Ceremonies is the root cause (not starting on time, going much longer than expected). Many FLL events bring in the drama club to keep the kids entertained for 30-45 minutes while the judging process wraps up. Along the same lines, FIRST could do something for Closing Ceremonies. Perhaps in keeping with the "Make it Loud" theme, a small entertainment event could start at 3pm on Saturday.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I don't remember mass paper airplanes prior to 2011, and I've been to champs every year since 2007.

The reality is, the airplane issue is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, many people disrespected the speakers and people on the floor by throwing things at them. On the other hand, the excitement of Einstein and Closing Ceremonies was totally annihilated by the fact that the whole process took four hours. For many people who showed up earlier than 3pm to get good seats, it was 5+ hours.

I was down in the lower stands, section 130. I concur that the airplane throwing needs to be addressed (in the very least, no more sharp edges!). However, the length and boredom of Closing Ceremonies is the root cause (not starting on time, going much longer than expected). Many FLL events bring in the drama club to keep the kids entertained for 30-45 minutes while the judging process wraps up. Along the same lines, FIRST could do something for Closing Ceremonies. Perhaps in keeping with the "Make it Loud" theme, a small entertainment event could start at 3pm on Saturday.

They could do a lot to alleviate the problem if they'd just do the following:

1) Give Dean Kamen a reasonable time limit for his speech, and make him stick to it.
2) Consolidate the giving of awards into a single ceremony, as is done for every regional competition I've ever been to and which I've never heard anyone complain about before. The awards-between-every-match system was horrid.

[DjScribbles]

I had the same feeling last year with the airplane throwing, that it wasn't very respectful toward the arena staff, VIPs, and people in general, and it didn't reflect well on our organization.

However, last year, the Air Force speaker actually congratulated somebody for their airplane making it on stage, and similarly the crowd went nuts when the 5pt plane was scored. These events serve as a huge encouragement to the practice, which I began to think was a tradition this year.

It's unfortunate, but I think for the airplanes to stop, something will need to be said at the event by someone that will be listened to; the idea of formalizing it a bit more is also good, and should serve to channel the enthusiasm to be less chaotic.

I'll never forget the lone janitor on the floor last year, standing on the dome floor sweeping up paper airplanes, only to have more rain down; it left me rather disgusted, however hearing that these tribute pages were made into airplanes and thrown at the stage trumps that by a huge margin...