Paper Airplanes

[iambujo]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

I hate to post this since it's going to make me sound like an a killjoy or a typical parent that yells "it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye", but here it goes:

I got hit in the side of the face Saturday with a paper airplane. I'm not sure what it was made of, but it actually hurt quite a bit. All I could think of was: a) I'm glad it didn't hit me in the eye because as bad as it hurt there's a good chance it could have seriously damaged my eye, and b) I should put my safety glasses on (which I did).

I must be a killjoy also. I know the majority loves this growing tradition, I read about it last year. But this was my first time witnessing it. I was there supporting my team, with my 1 year old son and wife. We actually had to leave. You can't put or keep safety glasses on a 1 year old. We put him in the stroller and rolled over to a concourse to watch from the side, one still made it in under the canopy and hit him in the face!

So yes it may be fun, but it's certainly a safety issue. One of those in the eye could cause permanent damage, and to require every spectator to have safety glasses on is not realistic.

I suspect some will say (or think) it's not a place for a baby anyway. With the paper airplanes flying I agree, without them I disagree and am proud that all 3 of my kids have started in the FIRST environment as babies and have loved it ever since. They've even been considered team mascots over the years! They deserve to be there too, and shouldn't need safety gear in the stands.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by Mike Starke

So this was my first time being down in the VIP seating for Einstein. I, myself, got hit right above the eye, and on the arm. And that's just me. I'm sure the LEGO executive, our Armed Forces Representatives, and every other VERY IMPORTANT PERSON loved being hit/almost hit as well. Some of these people are getting their companies to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars (plus) to FIRST. To echo what Libby said, it's just down right disrespective on so many levels.

We can barely get some of the students to wear their safety glasses in the pits. Can you imagine having to wear them during the ceremonies
An paper airplane in the eye would hurt. Do you want to be the mentor that has to explain why there child had to go the emergency room for an eye injury?
STOP THROWING PAPER AIRPLANE!!!
Also, I saw another thing being thrown form the upper arena. I don't know what it was but it was lit with led's and seemed to have some mass to it. What were they and why would you think it was cool to throw it into the crowd?

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

They could do a lot to alleviate the problem if they'd just do the following:

1) Give Dean Kamen a reasonable time limit for his speech, and make him stick to it.
2) Consolidate the giving of awards into a single ceremony, as is done for every regional competition I've ever been to and which I've never heard anyone complain about before. The awards-between-every-match system was horrid.

1.You be the one to tell Mr. Kamen to limit the time of his speech. He started this event. He deserves as much time as he wants to get his point across. It our job to be a good audience.

2. The awards in between worked well. They took up the dead time between resets. If they hadn't done this it would have been even longer.

It's time for a bit of positive peer pressure next year. It's time to stop the planes before they start.

[runneals]

Originally Posted by EricH

No, it would NOT be cool. R/C aircraft--of any type--can be very dangerous. I actually have an R/C aircraft that would be perfect for flying in a dome (if it's repaired), and I wouldn't even THINK about flying over the stands, or Einstein, or any field that was being packed up--for that matter, over any field at all due to the overhead cables for the lights being a great target for stray planes, or the personnel on the fields risking being injured should something go wrong.

If I'm talking about my sub-1-lb ultramicro foamy not being safe to fly under FIRST competition conditions, then anything strong enough to carry a camera is going to be even worse--larger, heavier, more powerful, more likely to hit something or someone. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but if I was to endorse such an idea, I would A) call in a professional, or at least somebody with a ton more experience than I do, and B) clear as many people off of the floor as I could, and C) put flags on every cable so they were more visible to the pilot. Oh, and D) listen to the pro when he told me it wasn't safe to fly.

Also, I should remind you that R/C pilots fly on 2.4 GHz. The field can potentially (and sometimes does) operate on that bandwidth, though it's usually on 5 GHz, but an awful lot of other stuff operates there too. I wouldn't risk it.

Yeah, I meant to say a professional person who has experience doing this type of thing, along with a pro flying machine (drone, hovercraft, helicopter, balloon, airplane, etc.). Also re the wireless, if you got a ham op, you would legally have a lot more wireless spectrum to work with that wouldn't interfere with anything.

I'm hoping to do something like this at our state fair, with their approval, and I'm a geogeek, so that's how I thought it up lolz

[tr6scott]

Originally Posted by prerob96

it happened in 2011, i remember 2137 team torc starting the throwing

I do not know what you are talking about...

This year TORC sat in the lower level, and we cleaned up probably 50 airplanes that landed in our section. Karma.

[Meshbeard]

Originally Posted by Bongle

Compromise idea:
I think a good solution would be to make it an official thing. Say "the team that gets a plane the furthest during a designated throwing time (between matches when no-one is speaking) wins a prize". You have to write your team # on each plane. You could also have a prize for greatest mass of paper airplanes cleaned up (to help with the litter issue), but that would be harder to check.

This way, everyone knows that it's not ok to throw them nonstop, but doesn't completely squelch the fun that people have throwing them (I was there in 2011, it was great to watch). It's a mini-engineering challenge. It would also let people in the stands prepare for a deluge of planes so people are aware.

This year was my first time at Championship. I thought the airplanes were obnoxious at first, but after seeing the first one hit Einstein, I took it as a challenge. Having it as an official challenge would be interesting. I could see it turning into a cool tradition. However, I could see people bringing in pre-made planes and I think that would partially ruin the spur of the moment feel. Having designated throwing times would be good to reduce the distraction factor and might make it more of a spectacle too.

I get the feeling that this "tradition" is not just going to end. So it would probably be best if FIRST put some restrictions on it and made it semi-official. Or maybe a team could organize it every year like how 399 runs Robo Prom. Maybe there could be a new objective every year, like distance one year, specific target next year, maybe smallest plane or longest flight. If it were organized like this it would be easier to get clean up organized. There could be recycle bins at the exits and people could be asked to bring all the planes near them to the recycle bins.

It was fun, but it should definitely be organized to keep it in check.

[Karthik]

I personally thought the throwing of airplanes was juvenile and annoying. However, I also think the lack personal hygiene displayed by many FIRSTers, along with a myriad of other things to be annoying as well. I've just come to accept these things, despite my general opposition and annoyance.

Now, all that being said, the next point really struck a chord with me.

Originally Posted by Libby K

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

My father - Dean's older brother? He was a huge part of the FIRST community. He died this September, and the program page with his face and his story should have been at least somewhat respected and not used for that purpose. None of the things FIRST works so hard to create should have been, but that one is very personal to me. I was absolutely horrified.

Have some class.

Seriously? What's wrong with the people who did this? Are people not familiar with the concept of respect? You're really going to take a memorial page for a pillar of the FIRST community and turn it into a paper airplane? This wasn't the only example of blatant disrespect I saw at the event. The number of people who were walking around and chatting both during the moment of silence and the national anthem during opening ceremonies was appalling. Even though this was just a small portion of the community, it still stuck out like a sore thumb. We can do better than this.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

1.You be the one to tell Mr. Kamen to limit the time of his speech. He started this event. He deserves as much time as he wants to get his point across. It our job to be a good audience.

That he is responsible for the event does not mean he is faultless - I respect the man greatly (how could I not, given what FRC has done for me?), but to not give frank criticism of his tendency towards over-long speech-making (to put it very lightly would verge on dishonesty. I don't think anyone who attended that event can say with a straight face that his speech during closing ceremonies was appropriately-lengthed.

2. The awards in between worked well. They took up the dead time between resets. If they hadn't done this it would have been even longer.

The total duration may have been longer, but the flow of the event would have been vastly improved. It killed the momentum and felt tedious.

[DCA Fan]

The paper airplanes need to stop. I was on the floor of the arena, and custodians were having to sweep constantly to keep the area clean before ceremonies begin. There was a huge pile of paper (I'm talking easily 100) that did not include the ones they couldn't get to all around the floor.

Yes, Einstein does go on for a long time. FIRST has been actively trying to shorten it as much as possible, but several factors must be considered:
a. Einstein practice matches - trying to ensure against connection issues
b. Sponsor recognition - giving sponsors the ability to present the awards
c. Match cycle times - there's only so fast you can go, especially with wanting to get rulings and counts right.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by DCA Fan

The paper airplanes need to stop. I was on the floor of the arena, and custodians were having to sweep constantly to keep the area clean before ceremonies begin. There was a huge pile of paper (I'm talking easily 100) that did not include the ones they couldn't get to all around the floor.

Along with the floor, think of all of the planes in between the rows of seats in the stands, which can't be cleaned until after everyone leaves.

As one of our team's 2 reps sitting on the field in front of Einstein, I want everyone to think of all the other people also sitting on the floor. Team representatives, VIPs, volunteers, FIRST staff, media, government officials, leaders of corporate sponsors - all being bombarded by planes. In some cases, I witnessed a few planes flying with great velocity hitting unsuspecting backs and heads. Yes, they're paper, but if made right, they can hurt.

After reading Libby's comment, of the page honoring her own father, Dean's brother, being ripped out and folded into planes - I am just disgusted. We're FIRST. We should be better than that. Represent our community well.

[CENTURION]

After hearing what Libby had to say, and the story about the Rockwell Collins rep, I'm definitely in agreement; The airplanes need to stop.

If you think Einstein takes too long: Sorry, but that's just how it is. Would you rather they sped the whole thing up, but had inaccurate scores? It takes a certain amount of time to reset the field, even more so this year, where the discs need to be counted, hanging points need to be checked, and then hanging robots safely removed, and more robots loaded on, and more driver stations connected. That's not even mentioning that in between finals matches, teams need to make sure their robot is ready, which includes changing batteries, charging air tanks, and the like.

Those same delays exist at Regional events, it's just part of how the game works.

Whining "but we were a little bored and had to wait for the match to start!" is no reason to disrespect our sponsors, volunteers, VIP's, and fellow teammates.

That said, I'm all for reorganizing the Einstein ceremony to the way regionals are; Final matches followed by awards.

[seg9585]

I just thought I'd point this out:

My company (Boeing) had a booth in the Sponsor area of the pit which featured a paper airplane contest.
It provided instructions on how to make better paper airplanes and the contest entailed landing the airplane on an aircraft carrier.

On one hand, if the students had an urge to throw airplanes they could have gotten it out of their system at the booth. On the other hand, I suppose many people gained a new skill from the booth and wanted to show it off.

[stephenmcd71]

What i was really mad at is the blatant disrespect for all the speakers and for the teams that made it to Einstein. Yes seeing the one going into the pyramid goal was cool but when a speaker starts to speak let alone the KAMEN family speaks I see it as total disrespect.Then to see the ones flying towards the field during a match only hoping they wouldn't hit the field and get in the way of the hard-work these kids and mentors put in was ridiculous I was sitting in section 120-121 (the Canadian section was totally awesome when 610 and 1241 btw) had to run to get the seats I didn't appreciate getting paper airplanes and near the end ripped up paper bootleg confetti. There were parents sitting next to me who had most likely been from Canada who probably spent a small fortune to see there grandchildren do something incredible then get rained on by airplanes and bootleg paper confetti.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

Also, I saw another thing being thrown form the upper arena. I don't know what it was but it was lit with led's and seemed to have some mass to it. What were they and why would you think it was cool to throw it into the crowd?

Somebody threw a frisbee from the stands during one of the speeches that landed next to our Einstein pit. That was bloody terrifying. It seemed to be an isolated incident, but I tucked everyone behind our pit carts for the duration anyway. Seriously, people, a frisbee?

[Koko Ed]

Someone was also flashing laser pointers down on the field. Me and Tom Nader were trying to see if we could spot the idiot.