Paper Airplanes

[Annemarie433]

Originally Posted by Headphones

As a rookie, how old is the tradition of throwing paper airplanes onto the Einstein field? I have seen several references to it dating back to 2003 or earlier.

The reason for my curiosity is that I was the person who scored a plane into the pyramid goal just before the Robowrangler's match. Pure luck, but quite awesome

I was down on the field when that happened and thought it was pretty amazing.. especially for a rookie! I have been waiting 2 years to do that!!

[pntbll1313]

There were only a few kids on my team that were folding planes and we told them to stop as soon as we saw. The vast majority knew it was disrespectful and did not throw any. One student from my team (a freshmen) leaned over to another group of students from another team and told them to stop because it was a safety issue. That made me happy This needs to stop. At the very minimum have a paper airplane contest in an open area in the pits. Kids can be creative there just like they were with the other games and the duct tape sculptures. All the while being respectful and safe.

[Jon K.]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Someone had a red one too and was flashing it on the floor.

Ed, one of the Archimedes teams had a red laser pointer on their robot. Not sure if they were one of the ones that made it to Einstein, but it could have been their robot, not a person.

[Nawaid Ladak]

I see both sides of the argument for and against the throwing of the paper airplanes. It's cool to watch them fly down from the stands when your on the dome floor. It's NOT cool to get hit by them. I'm a huge sucker for pageantry and traditions, but there is a time and place for everything.

I always hear the Championship Event called "The Superbowl of Smarts". If FIRST wants to be taken seriously, there is only one clear option.

If you throw something at the Superbowl from the stands. Security promptly escorts you out of the venue. All it would take is one idiot being caught on the big screen throwing a paper airplane followed by security escorting them out for these planes to be grounded permanently. a PSA video and signs wouldn't hurt either. This policy should also be applied for other silly things like laser pointers and frisbees.

If you can sit through the boring part of a movie, or a rain delay at a baseball game, I'm sure you can sit patiently while people who you should consider to be role models try to speak to you and get you to understand what you need to do to be successful in the future.

But then again, of the 25,000 people in the stands, what is the percentage of people who will actually end up reading this post? 6%? maybe 8%?

Just my $0.02

[BrendanB]

If people want the paper plane throwing to stop, email/contact FIRST about it, offer a suggestion, etc...

One way to end it would be to have a few volunteers/arena staff in the upper deck to address the issue as it happens along with a safety announcement after the upper deck is opened up not to throw objects.

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

Really??
Wow... I bet your parents like cleaning up after you as well.

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jon K.

Ed, one of the Archimedes teams had a red laser pointer on their robot. Not sure if they were one of the ones that made it to Einstein, but it could have been their robot, not a person.

The laser was on the floor a hundred feet from Einstein near the stands. Someone probably brought one in and was screwing around.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

I really don't know how to respond to this. It sounds like you are saying that it's ok to make a mess because we are providing work for someone? Is that the gist of it? That logic is so flawed I can't believe you actually said that. If I may be so bold to extend your logic out a bit further.

1. littering at the local park or nature reserve is ok, because you are providing someone a job to clean up after you.

2. speeding/reckless driving is your civic duty because it allows the state trooper to keep their job.

3. Allow companies to ruin the environment b/c it gives the EPA a reason to exist.

Does any of that make sense? It should not in our society. Believe me the folks who work at the dome have more than enough to do after an event like ours. They don't have to pick up airplanes to feed their families.

maybe we, in the FIRST community, need to work on changing our own culture before we work on society's...

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

But then again, of the 25,000 people in the stands, what is the percentage of people who will actually end up reading this post? 6%? maybe 8%?

I'll bet one or two people from each team will read this. All it takes is for one of them to bring this up at their team meeting and for the responsible leaders on each team to be made aware of it.

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

Spoken like a true CEO...

Don't underestimate the arrogance of those who think minimum wage makes it okay to treat people like dirt.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

...
Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

I don't entirely disagree with your post, but if you want the workers to be able to take pride in their work, maybe they'd prefer to spend a couple hours really polishing the stadium above "par" rather than just picking up airplanes to get it back to "par". What you've got there is the broken window fallacy: you're claiming that by making something dirty, you're employing someone and thus creating activity in the economy. But really, the global quality of life is higher if the dirtied/broken thing had remained clean in the first place. In this case, the cleaner's time could either be spent with his/her family or by cleaning the stadium to a higher standard.

Also, you say that "wouldn't they rather be cleaning planes than sticky goop: they still have to clean up all the sticky goop left by us as well. It's not like everyone said: "hey, let's toss planes instead of drinking pop/sandwiches/candy/etc" that day.

Any solution to the paper airplane issue has to include cleanup. Whether that is banning them entirely or creating a reward system for cleaning them.

[CENTURION]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

Those stadium workers already have jobs. Their job is to clean the stadium. They would be there cleaning that night whether paper airplanes were thrown or not. That doesn't mean it's okay to make a ton more work for them. Creating a bigger mess does not create more jobs, it just make the ones that exist harder.

Trash collectors come by each week to collect your trash, no matter what. That doesn't mean you should leave your trash strewn all over your front yard instead of in the can.

Janitor's job is to clean a building, and keep it running. Just because they mop the floors doesn't mean you should pour soda all over it.

[Dgk518]

I personally thought it was cool, I was on the field and to the rookie who made it in the five point goal you are my hero. There is a time and a place for it and it is before the finals start, and maybe when they anounce the champions, but while there are guests speaking and matches being played i mean c'mon really?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Libby K

I'd like to share a horror story - and yeah, this is personal. Deal with it.

I was down on the floor, as I was speaking during the ceremony. So I got to see quite a few airplanes.

Now, I get ripping up your programs and making airplanes, because you clearly NEED to throw those airplanes since they're so VITALLY important to the mission of FIRST...
...but did you guys really have to use the page that was my father's tribute?

My father - Dean's older brother? He was a huge part of the FIRST community. He died this September, and the program page with his face and his story should have been at least somewhat respected and not used for that purpose. None of the things FIRST works so hard to create should have been, but that one is very personal to me. I was absolutely horrified.
[/b]

How could this possibly keep going for 3 pages after that horrific story? And even then, when people are justifying it by saying that "Oh, well, janitors and whatnot. I'm keeping them in a job right now, so you should back off telling me to not throw a paper airplane."

I'd be all for a designated paper airplane contest at a specific location with no chance of someone downrange of the flyer, USING DESIGNATED PAPER, but on Einstein? Really? Is it necessary? It's hard to watch the match ahead of me when I'm afraid of being nailed from behind me. I came to St. Louis to actually watch the FIRST Championship, not for a chance to toss a paper airplane from an upper balcony.

[neshera]

I always thought the paper airplane thing (which I remember from at least one year in Atlanta) was a creative, pseudo-engineering, organic/spontaneous, participatory activity. From the stands, it didn't seem embarrasing at all when done before the actual closing ceremony/matches.
I was not hugely concerned about the risk of serious injury; given the number of planes thrown over the years, with no reported (on CD, at least) serious injury means the odds are quite low.
I was even planning how to get our team involved in recycling the airplanes as a fundraising/community assistance opportunity.

Then I read this thread.
Libby Kamen, I commend you for not losing it on stage during the Image Award presentation and telling people how grotesque and disgusting their actions were.

The story of the Rockwell executive is telling.

You all have convinced me - this is not an acceptable activity.

But the big problem, and I think the big impetus for the airplane throwing in the first place, is the "down time" BEFORE the Einstein events begin. Not the length of the Einstein events themselves, but rather the time between when seating is opened for the general public, and when the action/awards/recognition begins. This can be hours, if you want any kind of a decent seat. There is nothing on the big screen, no music, just sitting in the seats with lots of adrenaline flowing because of what you just saw on your competition field and what you anticipate.

So I think an official ban on paper airplane throwing is reasonable, but I think it is much more likely to succeed if there is something to do/watch in the Einstein seating areas before the Einstein events begin.
Some thought/suggestions:
Show the videos the students have made, i.e. the Safety videos, and if it returns the AutoDesk Animation Award videos.
Have music for dancing
Have lessons for some of the more popular dances (e.g. Macarena, Electric Slide, etc.)
Show highlight reels from some of the District/Regional competitions (yes, someone would have to make/narrate these; but I bet people would be happy to help)
Mascot/flag parade.

I strongly feel the main reason paper airplane throwing begins is boredom. Alleviate that, and stop it before it starts, and no one should be throwing anything while the Einstein events themselves are occuring.