Future Championships

[Nemo]

How should the format of the championship be changed?
How should teams qualify for the championship?

Old thread. I figured that one was old enough to start a new one.

[EricH]

Oooh boy...

Let me start by saying that while I do want the Championship to be a qual-to-attend event, I understand that it's a lot more inspirational to attend than to not, even if you get your behind handed to you every match. So, can't be solely on robot merit. I'm also going to utterly ignore FLL and FTC, other than assuming that they'll be taking up roughly the amount of space used now.

Let's start by cutting the number of teams/division. Let's arbitrarily make it 70 (for now), with an absolute cap at 80. 70*4=280 slots. 80*4=320 slots. Not enough with only 4 divisions to get even all of the qualifiers.

So... We add a pair of divisions. Let's call them Watt (after James Watt) and Tesla, just for grins. 6 divisions, each with 70 teams, that's 420 teams max, with potential to grow to 480. Eliminations within each division play like normal; Einstein is TBD (leaning towards a round-robin where the top two play each other in best-of-three). I'm assuming that space can be worked out, either in the current venue or in another one.

Here's the fun part, though. Of those 420 spots, a minimum of 20 are open only to teams who have not been to the Championship in more than 4 years. Registration is offered by FIRST when the teams sign up, on the basis of maximum time since attendance (veteran teams returning as rookies excepted), and can be accepted or declined by the team. Another X slots are opened in a similar way, but on the waitlist.

The remainder of the slots (in this example, 400) are open only to qualifiers--the standard winners, RCA, EI, RAS system, or the District-model qualifications. Each district system can qualify a number of teams determined by their percentage of the whole FRC competition--1% sends 4 teams, for example. Wild Cards are in force anywhere the district system is not, and INCLUDE slots taken by a district team competing outside their area.

Eventually, with the district model taking over entirely, it'll all be district/district championship qualification--but I'd still want to hold 20 or so slots for teams needing an injection of inspiration. How to hand them out? That's a tough one.

[Jacob Paikoff]

This is from last year but I think that it fits in pretty nicely with the discussion:
http://nop-jepblog.blogspot.com/2012...mpionship.html

[Calvin Hartley]

Originally Posted by Jacob Paikoff

This is from last year but I think that it fits in pretty nicely with the discussion:
http://nop-jepblog.blogspot.com/2012...mpionship.html

His second paragraph mentions the percentage of FRC, FTC, and FLL teams that make it to their respective World Championship/Festival. I don't know where he got his information on number of FLL teams, but last year (when he wrote it) there was around 19-20,000 FLL teams. This year there were about 21,000 teams, with about 84 spots at World Festival. (To my knowledge.)

My opinion is that all programs should remain in the same venue together, at the same time. This lets students (and others!) to see the other programs and what they do.

[Jacob Paikoff]

Originally Posted by Calvin Hartley

His second paragraph mentions the percentage of FRC, FTC, and FLL teams that make it to their respective World Championship/Festival. I don't know where he got his information on number of FLL teams, but last year (when he wrote it) there was around 19-20,000 FLL teams. This year there were about 21,000 teams, with about 84 spots at World Festival. (To my knowledge.)

My opinion is that all programs should remain in the same venue together, at the same time. This lets students (and others!) to see the other programs and what they do.

From what I remember from last year I tried to find a more exact FLL number but since FIRST doesn't(didn't) have that information on their website I ended up just estimating a lowish number.

If your numbers are correct than 0.4% of FLL teams qualify for the World Festival.

[karomata]

Some day I would like to see the Einstein Field at championships to be renamed The Kamen Field.

[Mykey]

Adding more divisions makes a lot of sense to me. It would allow for more qualifier matches and still allow room for those teams to go that should be allowed to experience champs for inspiration.

The district model has one major drawback where we live - distance. For example: San Antonio and El Paso has 550 miles of nearly nothing between them. This is the same distance as going from Philadelphia, PA to Myrtle Beach, SC. You can cross seven states with many teams in the same distance that one of the El Paso teams would have to travel just to get to the next major city. Granted this is an extreme example; however, it does highlight my concern.

[treffk]

Originally Posted by Mykey

The district model has one major drawback where we live - distance. For example: San Antonio and El Paso has 550 miles of nearly nothing between them. This is the same distance as going from Philadelphia, PA to Myrtle Beach, SC. You can cross seven states with many teams in the same distance that one of the El Paso teams would have to travel just to get to the next major city. Granted this is an extreme example; however, it does highlight my concern.

I actually calculated this out the other day. It would take teams from Montana(5), Wyoming(3), Colorado(48), New Mexico(5), North Dakota(3), South Dakota(1), Nebraska(0), Kansas(20), Oklahoma(48), Iowa(5), Missouri(62), and Arkansas(18) to make up an amount of teams that just barely exceeds the number of teams in Michigan.

I love the theory of the district model but there are a few kinks that would need worked out for areas that do not have high density of teams thoughout a state or a predetermined amount of land.

[EricLeifermann]

The issue with adding more teams is that FIRST STRUGGLED to get to 400 teams this year. Even with a wait-list and the wildcard system. I think it had to do with pulling teams off the wait list to late. If a wildcard isn't claimed/used from a competition then teams need to be pulled off the wait list right away or here is a shocker we need to just not have a wait list or wildcard and champs is only as big as the teams who register for it when they qualify. Crazy!

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by treffk

I actually calculated this out the other day. It would take teams from Montana(5), Wyoming(3), Colorado(48), New Mexico(5), North Dakota(3), South Dakota(1), Nebraska(0), Kansas(20), Oklahoma(48), Iowa(5), Missouri(62), and Arkansas(18) to make up an amount of teams that just barely exceeds the number of teams in Michigan.

I love the theory of the district model but there are a few kinks that would need worked out for areas that do not have high density of teams thoughout a state or a predetermined amount of land.

This might answer your question. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...1&d=1363286050

While I don't necessarily agree with the "super-regional" concept, I do like the district model they have set up here.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by treffk

I actually calculated this out the other day. It would take teams from Montana(5), Wyoming(3), Colorado(48), New Mexico(5), North Dakota(3), South Dakota(1), Nebraska(0), Kansas(20), Oklahoma(48), Iowa(5), Missouri(62), and Arkansas(18) to make up an amount of teams that just barely exceeds the number of teams in Michigan.

I love the theory of the district model but there are a few kinks that would need worked out for areas that do not have high density of teams thoughout a state or a predetermined amount of land.

We're from Iowa, and I'd love to get into a district system. We travel about 5 hours away for the events we attend. It would probably be roughly the same if we were in a district system. If we qualified for district championships, the result would be that we'd get three regular season events instead of two for the same registration fees, and we'd end up having to travel to an extra event. If the new events are still in our ~5 hour driving radius, that sounds like gravy to me. (and 12 qualifiers per event? Sounds pretty nice...)

[treffk]

I'd love to see almost like a ticker-like box on the website that has the current count of teams in each program.

*If I rememeber later tonight (my work computer has IE7 and won't load the page I need) I will give the exact number for Jr. FLL. Today should be the last day you can register a team as registration was open until April 2013.

[Chris is me]

I really don't want second picks to be universally not included. I believe a lot of second picks are what make the difference between winning and losing particular regionals, and no system designed to exclude the so called "carried" second picks could be perfectly fair to those that made very legitimate contributions to the alliance. For example, the WPI Regional this year would not have been won if 3044 was not on the winning alliance.

I heard an idea at the Championships that I don't know if I support. The idea was essentially to allow an optional, opt-in "fifth division" for rookie all star winners, culture change award winners that did not medal at events, etc. That way, these teams get the "championship experience" while not dragging down the level of play or being forced to play nightmare match after nightmare match. The division would be optional so that rookies who feel they can handle the big dogs could still compete in the normal four divisions.

[Lil' Lavery]

Auto qualify Chairman's Winners. Everyone else gets in via district-like points system.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Auto qualify Chairman's Winners. Everyone else gets in via district-like points system.

This with slightly less teams per division and 16 alliances instead of 8 in elims. "First round" is single elimination. Other rounds play like normal.