2013 Lessons Learned: The Negative

[Marc S.]

Here's my quick list:

- More wildcard teams, it would be awesome if slots spilled back to previous regionals, at SVR 4 of the six teams in the finals were already going to champs.

- Show opening ceremonies on field screens; there were thousands of people who didn't get to see it because they were trying to save seats for their scouts, let alone be there to scout the first match of the day.

- More matches at champs; someone mentioned adding another day, 5th division, or less teams at champs (my least favorite).

- Music is TOO LOUD! I'm waiting for the day when a safety inspector walks up to the dj and tells them the volume level is unsafe. When it's hard to hear the person next to you, who is yelling, it's too loud. Every competition I have been to has had this problem, apparently FIRST wants us to be deaf engineers.

- Webcasts are pretty bad, if the camera just focused on the field, not individual robots (or people in the stands....), during matches, then it would be easier to tell what's actually going on.

- Einstien had a lot of dead time; maybe FIRST could play FTC matches inbetween FRC matches or give out more awards, with a much faster turn around. I think drag racing is a good example of a sport to emulate in this regards. Also, can we please not have dance breaks, once a song starts it just slows down everything.

[Grim Tuesday]

Speaking of safety, the level of safety theater in FIRST is ridiculous. FIRST needs to tell the judges and safety advisors judging the UL safety award that it isn't about being visibly safe, it's about being actually safe. An escort yelling 'robot', escorting me to my pit does not make anything safer. Posters above the urinals does not make anything safer. What teams do these days to try and win the safety award is just silly and I think FIRST needs to make a statement about it and be clear that they are looking for teams that are truly safe.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Speaking of safety, the level of safety theater in FIRST is ridiculous. FIRST needs to tell the judges and safety advisors judging the UL safety award that it isn't about being visibly safe, it's about being actually safe. An escort yelling 'robot', escorting me to my pit does not make anything safer. Posters above the urinals does not make anything safer. What teams do these days to try and win the safety award is just silly and I think FIRST needs to make a statement about it and be clear that they are looking for teams that are truly safe.

I lost count of the number of 'safety' reminders that piled up in our pit. Some were literally a index card size bit of paper with 4 or 5 bulleted of the most vague and unhelpful safety 'reminders' and 'tips' you could imagine. 'Wear safety glasses in the pit'. 'Lift with your legs'. 'Be safe'.

I get that it's all coming from a good place, but a sheet of paper reminding me to wear my safety glasses in the pits doesn't really mean or do anything at all. It's just more clutter and theater. It all just ends up in the trash.

I guess I'd also like to see teams putting less effort into winning a safety award, and more effort in just being safe. My own experience looking at the teams who do win the award is that the judges tend to understand this, and are awarding it to teams that simply have a safe program and an ingrained culture of safety.

[jee7s]

This might be a bit of a sidetrack, but...

Originally Posted by Andy A.

I get that it's all coming from a good place, but a sheet of paper reminding me to wear my safety glasses in the pits doesn't really mean or do anything at all. It's just more clutter and theater. It all just ends up in the trash.

Worse than that are the teams that create unsafe conditions in the interest of "safety" (a la the safety theater mentioned earlier). There's one team (that I have a great deal of respect for and shall remain nameless) that I see regularly at events I attend that love to tape their laminated safety reminders to the floor. Sometimes this is at the entry to the pits with a big laminated print saying "Safety Glasses Required" and occasionally other reminders on the floor throughout the pit.

The problem is that laminated paper is REALLY slippery, especially if it gets wet. I've seen kids slip on these and take a faceplant or twisted ankle in the name of "Safety."

To their credit, this team has gotten a bit more thoughtful about their deployment of these reminders (either on their own or through some Safety Advisors), and now the situation is at least less dangerous.

Also, at the FRC level: Has anyone ever pondered the wisdom of wearing gloves while "working" on the robot? That's in the official safety manual the last time I checked (which is admittedly a while ago). Personally, I NEVER wear gloves while working on the robot. I've seen too many gloves get dragged into mechanisms or caught up in the robot that I'm sufficiently worried about losing a finger. Wear gloves while lifting, sure. But, while working on it? That just seems like too much of a risk should something turn on. I would much rather get a blood blister than have my hand pulled into a drivetrain by accident.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Also, at the FRC level: Has anyone ever pondered the wisdom of wearing gloves while "working" on the robot? That's in the official safety manual the last time I checked (which is admittedly a while ago). Personally, I NEVER wear gloves while working on the robot. I've seen too many gloves get dragged into mechanisms or caught up in the robot that I'm sufficiently worried about losing a finger. Wear gloves while lifting, sure. But, while working on it? That just seems like too much of a risk should something turn on. I would much rather get a blood blister than have my hand pulled into a drivetrain by accident.

I've probably had a safety advisor tell me to wear gloves against OSHA regs at least one every other event. I need to start carrying around that manual. It's ridiculous. Thankfully we've been clear with our team and they know better, but I'm really worried about teams that don't. Condoning theater is one (bad) thing, but mandating gloves in unsafe situations, snagging people's carts so their robots drop, making people run to the front of their cart*...Something has to change with the green shirts. Now. Most of them are quite good, but the bad ones are creating a dangerous culture.


*I literally had an SA tell one of my drivers to run (yes, "run") around our cart in the crowded pit so they could get to the front and yell "ROBOT!" We already had a driver in front of us kindly asking people to move, and it had worked well for several hundred feet.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by Siri

...Something has to change with the green shirts. Now. Most of them are quite good, but the bad ones are creating a dangerous culture.


*I literally had an SA tell one of my drivers to run (yes, "run") around our cart in the crowded pit so they could get to the front and yell "ROBOT!" We already had a driver in front of us kindly asking people to move, and it had worked well for several hundred feet.

Oh yes, this needs to be highlighted to FRC in general. And it reminds me of a couple things to mention.

Firstly, remember that not every Green Shirt is actually from UL. I wore that green shirt at an event last year, and I've never worked for UL. I think the sponsorship and logos lead people to that false impression. I know Siri didn't say that, but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere.

Secondly, I've found that Volunteer Coordinators sometimes make the Safety Advisor role a place to put a professional that is more technically inclined but not necessarily familiar with FIRST. At that event last year, I was the ONLY SA with any FIRST experience at all. We had a "Lead SA" who was a UL employee, but hadn't even been to an FRC event before. We also had a couple of safety folks from the venue (it took place at a University). But other than the four of us, the other SAs had little safety experience over all, much less safety in FIRST. I found myself having to bring all of those SA colleagues up to speed on FIRST and the safety culture. They were receptive to it, and I'm flexible to fill needs when they need to be filled, but that wasn't exactly part of my role description.

And the yelling "Robot" thing just has to stop. It's rude, unprofessional, and distracting. Thanks to one of the Mentors on my team, we consistently counter the yelling of "Robot!" with a loud but not quite yelling retort of "Human!". Remember everyone, humans always have the right of way. If you're moving a robot, it's your job to manage the traffic to clear a path. Yelling "Robot!" doesn't cut it in my book, and if you yell at me louder when I don't/can't move out of your way, I'm just going to be less inclined to get out of your way.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Thanks to one of the Mentors on my team, we consistently counter the yelling of "Robot!" with a loud but not quite yelling retort of "Human!"

Honestly, this strikes me as far more obnoxious and unhelpful than the yelling of "Robot!" is in the first place; "Robot!", even if you believe it is suboptimal (for the record, I think it works fine), has a clear use. "Human!" does nothing but add to the noise and confusion. Almost no one is going to have a clear inclination of what is meant when someone shouts "Human!" Pretty much everyone knows what is meant when someone shouts "Robot!"

If you think the shouting of "Robot!" does more harm than good, that's fine. But be reasonable about how you try to convey that point. The action you've described is going to do absolutely nothing to fix the problem; on the contrary, it does nothing but exacerbate the very problems that the critics of "Robot!" point to.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Honestly, this strikes me as far more obnoxious and unhelpful than the yelling of "Robot!" is in the first place; "Robot!", even if you believe it is suboptimal (for the record, I think it works fine), has a clear use. "Human!" does nothing but add to the noise and confusion. Almost no one is going to have a clear inclination of what is meant when someone shouts "Human!" Pretty much everyone knows what is meant when someone shouts "Robot!"

If you think the shouting of "Robot!" does more harm than good, that's fine. But be reasonable about how you try to convey that point. The action you've described is going to do absolutely nothing to fix the problem; on the contrary, it does nothing but exacerbate the very problems that the critics of "Robot!" point to.

Just to be clear about this, it's not like we go around shouting "Human" every time someone shouts "Robot". It's not even shouted. When we do it, it's a comment directed at the team that's yelling "Robot", not a general comment to everyone within earshot. Yeah, it's a little sarcastic, maybe. But, 9 times out of 10, or maybe even 95 out of 100, we get a chuckle from the team because they know what they are doing is what we have discussed: Safety Theater.

Often, that becomes an icebreaker between our two teams, we get to know each other, and we start reminding other teams to not shout "Robot" all over the place. So, no, we aren't jerks about it. We use the "Human!" content to provoke thought and conversation, and it's been quite successful on those two fronts without the drawbacks you assumed above.

And, BTW, there's PLENTY of ambiguity in "Robot!". It's not clear what people should do when they hear that, particularly to those not familiar with FIRST. Even if it's coupled with a clear indication to get out of the way, that doesn't help much either as people don't usually know where they need to move to get out of the way. This is particularly true if their backs are turned to you, which is when this "Robot" shouting technique is usually employed.

But hey, everything I just said has already been said in other threads. No need to beat this to death.

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Just to be clear about this, it's not like we go around shouting "Human" every time someone shouts "Robot". It's not even shouted. When we do it, it's a comment directed at the team that's yelling "Robot", not a general comment to everyone within earshot. Yeah, it's a little sarcastic, maybe. But, 9 times out of 10, or maybe even 95 out of 100, we get a chuckle from the team because they know what they are doing is what we have discussed: Safety Theater.

Often, that becomes an icebreaker between our two teams, we get to know each other, and we start reminding other teams to not shout "Robot" all over the place. So, no, we aren't jerks about it. We use the "Human!" content to provoke thought and conversation, and it's been quite successful on those two fronts without the drawbacks you assumed above.

And, BTW, there's PLENTY of ambiguity in "Robot!". It's not clear what people should do when they hear that, particularly to those not familiar with FIRST. Even if it's coupled with a clear indication to get out of the way, that doesn't help much either as people don't usually know where they need to move to get out of the way. This is particularly true if their backs are turned to you, which is when this "Robot" shouting technique is usually employed.

But hey, everything I just said has already been said in other threads. No need to beat this to death.

We generally stick to saying, "Excuse us, robot coming through!" and most people realize that means a robot is coming through the aisle that they should NOT even be standing in. On the one hand, just yelling "ROBOT" is rude and ineffective; on the other hand, trying to "navigate" through a sea of people who are crowding the aisles is just dangerous (especially with little children around).

In a perfect world, the aisles would be closed when robots were moving through (they are pretty big machines after all--think of the Home Depot aisle curtains). But that is not at all conducive to the FIRST atmosphere which includes visitors strolling through the pits.

I propose that teams keep their members in their pit area (or at least no further than a foot outside) and robot transporters use phrases or sentences to politely excuse themselves through the pits with one or two people leading the way.

[Moon2020]

I want to see more solutions to the problems listed in this thread!

We should have enough LRIs and IMs to handle inspection for 8 fields of 50 robots to increase the number of matches per team. Still 400 teams total. It's whether we can fit two more practice fields and four more division fields within the space and if all the equipment is working (I know that we have at least one broken scale).

There needs to be a Pit Admin sign for FRC at normal person viewing level (not just the Division names hanging from the ceiling). A good portion of my time is spent being Pit Admin with the following questions being the most common: Where is Pit Admin, where do I put this (safety paper), where is lost and found, how do I get my crate moved, where do we check in, where is spare parts, where is the machine shop, where is the hall of fame, where is FTC, where is FLL, where is the other Division, have you seen my lost child, what do I do with a lost child?

FIRST needs to have a computer with a searchable database for team information versus a print out. I helped a bus driver from Michigan find his team after the event staff and police officer could not help him. He only knew the city of the team. Luckily, I had the master list of teams in an Excel file that included the team numbers, city, and sponsors. Additionally, it needs to include the teams' names to help make it complete. I cannot even begin to tell you how many teams I looked up for people.

The Pit Admin announcer needs to tell the crowd that the pit is closing not because the Volunteers and event staff want to go back to our hotels/homes, but because it is really about being fair to everyone about robot build/modification time.

I want teams to sit together and nobody left out. Nobody should be sitting/standing on stairs or standing in an aisle for safety reasons. Thus, I would like to see the number of team members plus four seats reserved for teams in the arena on their field (guests/spectators I'm sure would love to sit with a team and have the team explain). If you want to go to another Division's field to watch, you take what ever seats are left over. Einstein needs more seating. Must use the long side of the arena next time. It was way too loud. The buzzer went off and my ears nearly bled from the sound pressure.

Volunteer food times coincide with peak Robot Inspection times. I really need this fixed to ensure everyone who wants to eat gets to eat. For example: Breakfast starts at 6:30 am but the Pit opens at 7:00 am. Dinner on Wednesday evening is also a really tough one due to load in and bag-n-tag starting at 4:00 pm with inspections to follow. The food is far away from where we are located and it is a bit like swimming upstream in the flow of people to get to the Volunteer food room and back in a reasonable amount of time.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Here is my list.

1. St. Louis in general. I’m sure a lot of teams were able to bus it in from other parts of the country, but for those of us who flew in, most of us probably had to connect through another hub city. I can only imagine how annoying this must be for those teams flying from international/rural destinations. I hope FIRST considers this aspect when they look at potential bids after next year’s Championship Event.

2. Increase qualification matches at CMP: I’m sure there is something that can be done to add matches to the schedule without reducing the number of teams. This would mean that you would likely have to add time. I personally came up with something like this

Thursday
8AM-11AM: Practice Matches
12PM-8PM: Qualification Matches
Friday
9:30AM-7:30PM: Qualification Matches
Saturday
8AM-11AM: Qualification Matches
2PM-7PM: Elimination Matches with the division finals played on Einstein so that those matches can double for testing communications for the field.
7PM-Cont. Closing Ceremonies/Finals on Einstein.

This makes space for about 180 qualification matches on a 7 minute cycle. You could have gotten ten matches for each team with only 166 qualification matches. Even running at a 7.5 minute cycle, you would get 168 matches. I’m sure teams could get the breaks that they wanted for lunch and other things on Friday (Look at 148’s schedule; they didn't have a single match Friday until around 1:15pm). Frank addressed this in his e-mail earlier today, so I’m sure this is something FIRST is looking into.

As for the part I have about Saturday. I think you can tie in things like the talent show/dance/top 5 exciting matches during the season and make the Finals the Finale as well.

3. Real time scoring needs improvement (already beaten to death)

4. Qualifying for Championship should be changed. Maybe something like this?

5. FIRST needs better infrastructure for media sources. What do I mean by this?

a. An actual PR effort instead of handing out 8GB flash drives with just 15 or so pictures form the New York City Regional on them along with a bunch of other text files. (that’s what those cool little FIRST bracelets that looked like powerbands were.)
b. Include the basics to create a webcast as part of the kit that travels with the fields around the country during the regional events. (Even if its’ at 480p for the first few years) and use this to your advantage. The faster FIRST can standardize things when it comes to media like this, the better the media opportunities for FIRST will get. Imagine utilizing this to have live look-ins for other regional events during timeouts or breaks, Imagine having the top 5 most exciting matches of the year replayed on the Einstein big screen instead of throwing paper airplanes waiting for match results… It would be easier for a media provider to pick up FIRST if all the infrastructure for the media was already created.
c. Pushing to try and get network executives/people in the sports broadcasting industry as part of the administration in FIRST. Having an insiders’ track to land a major media opportunity would be huge for this program.

6. Let's try to get a bigger space for Karthik next year instead of this.

That’s all I could think of right now, otherwise this has been an excellent season.

[Bryan Herbst]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

9:30AM-7:30PM: Qualification Matches

If you can find four fields worth of volunteers willing to go 10 hours without breaks, then we have a 40-way tie for volunteer of the year.

[Denise Bohnsack]

Reading through this thread I see some think that there are too many teams attending with not enough time for play, the robots are not as qualified, and the money is too much for 8 matches. I also see comments that FIRST is about inspiring students so none of the above matter.

Here is just a thought based on my experience from many years ago when my son was a student and not the active volunteer alumni he is now. His rookie team had no chance to go to championship. The robot did not perform well and even if it had the money would have not had been there for the team to go.So to attend the World championship in Atlanta, I took off work, I took him out of school and we went on our own.The ultimate road trip. It was a life changing experience and perhaps a more valuable experience than some of the times we attended with a team with a robot later. In Atlanta, my son attended NEMO workshops, visited pits, met mentors and students, and just took the whole championship experience in. (When attending as a contender, it is easy to be so focused on a robot, there is so much that is missed.) I suggest that certain deserving teams go as a smaller contingency, purely as a learning experience, with their most involved student leaders and do the same thing. Perhaps FIRST can deem them a special name, such as Inspire Teams, which does not qualify them for robot matches, but as a group to go for the learning experience and opportunity. Since it is a smaller group without a robot, charge a smaller amount, say $2000 that includes workshops, conferences, special meetings, a tour of the Hall of Fame, meet and greet with FIRST special guests and so on. Since FIRST is about INSPIRING students, this seems a perfect solution for both the arguments above. Less robots, but more learning opportunities on how to be a better team. If adding to the financial bottom line is important for the FIRST budget, smaller teams consisting of leaders attending but still paying for the experience at a lesser price, addresses that situation as well.

My son was also given the blessing of being asked to attend with other local teams who qualified and I continue to be grateful to those mentors/teachers with those teams who made it possible. I am also grateful to the NEMO folks, who provided workshops on how to be a successful team. Restricting less "elite" teams from attending would keep younger teams from learning how to become an "elite" experienced team. Having the opportunity to learn from those teams - PRICELESS. There is a great solution here for all parties here somewhere. Oh, as a side note, later teams my son was involved with did go to World championship after learning the ropes from experienced teams and workshops at the World championship. That's how it is suppose to work, right?
And the finale party in Atlanta was purely fun and inspiring with the wonderful location with lots of room for everybody and fireworks. It may not be doable in St. Louis, perhaps because of the logistics and weather, but it is what everyone misses. Is Forest Park too far away? Or can that park mall avenue with all the fountains and statues in front of the capitol be roped off? Could fireworks light up over the arch like they do on the 4th? Just some thoughts. Thanks for all the hard work. It is an enormous effort I know, and hard to find some solutions with so many folks to consider. Over all, great job! Again, an amazing experience!

[tcjinaz]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the most basic level, this is what FIRST can be about!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it about Inspiration or Recognition?

Comments on submissions from the "Old Guard" coming soon...

Originally Posted by Denise Bohnsack

Reading through this thread I see some think that there are too many teams attending with not enough time for play, the robots are not as qualified, and the money is too much for 8 matches. I also see comments that FIRST is about inspiring students so none of the above matter.

Here is just a thought based on my experience from many years ago when my son was a student and not the active volunteer alumni he is now. His rookie team had no chance to go to championship. The robot did not perform well and even if it had the money would have not had been there for the team to go.So to attend the World championship in Atlanta, I took off work, I took him out of school and we went on our own.The ultimate road trip. It was a life changing experience and perhaps a more valuable experience than some of the times we attended with a team with a robot later. In Atlanta, my son attended NEMO workshops, visited pits, met mentors and students, and just took the whole championship experience in. (When attending as a contender, it is easy to be so focused on a robot, there is so much that is missed.) I suggest that certain deserving teams go as a smaller contingency, purely as a learning experience, with their most involved student leaders and do the same thing. Perhaps FIRST can deem them a special name, such as Inspire Teams, which does not qualify them for robot matches, but as a group to go for the learning experience and opportunity. Since it is a smaller group without a robot, charge a smaller amount, say $2000 that includes workshops, conferences, special meetings, a tour of the Hall of Fame, meet and greet with FIRST special guests and so on. Since FIRST is about INSPIRING students, this seems a perfect solution for both the arguments above. Less robots, but more learning opportunities on how to be a better team. If adding to the financial bottom line is important for the FIRST budget, smaller teams consisting of leaders attending but still paying for the experience at a lesser price, addresses that situation as well.

My son was also given the blessing of being asked to attend with other local teams who qualified and I continue to be grateful to those mentors/teachers with those teams who made it possible. I am also grateful to the NEMO folks, who provided workshops on how to be a successful team. Restricting less "elite" teams from attending would keep younger teams from learning how to become an "elite" experienced team. Having the opportunity to learn from those teams - PRICELESS. There is a great solution here for all parties here somewhere. Oh, as a side note, later teams my son was involved with did go to World championship after learning the ropes from experienced teams and workshops at the World championship. That's how it is suppose to work, right?
And the finale party in Atlanta was purely fun and inspiring with the wonderful location with lots of room for everybody and fireworks. It may not be doable in St. Louis, perhaps because of the logistics and weather, but it is what everyone misses. Is Forest Park too far away? Or can that park mall avenue with all the fountains and statues in front of the capitol be roped off? Could fireworks light up over the arch like they do on the 4th? Just some thoughts. Thanks for all the hard work. It is an enormous effort I know, and hard to find some solutions with so many folks to consider. Over all, great job! Again, an amazing experience!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Denise Bohnsack

I suggest that certain deserving teams go as a smaller contingency, purely as a learning experience, with their most involved student leaders and do the same thing. Perhaps FIRST can deem them a special name, such as Inspire Teams, which does not qualify them for robot matches, but as a group to go for the learning experience and opportunity. Since it is a smaller group without a robot, charge a smaller amount, say $2000 that includes workshops, conferences, special meetings, a tour of the Hall of Fame, meet and greet with FIRST special guests and so on.

Admission is free. It would be strange to charge $2000 for a team to do all of that stuff when all they have to do is show up and do that stuff as it is now.